Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » HE » Cool HE
Cool HE Mon, 11 December 2006 08:26 Go to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
Race Name: Borg Union
Plural: Borg

PRT: HE
LRTs: IFE, UR, OBRM, LSP, RS (and with help of StarEd also BET, just making it so that nothing needs level 26 in science)

Tri-Immune
Growth Rate: 6%
Resources: 1/1000

Factories:
10/15
9
10000/25

Mines
10/12
9
10/21

Research: All costs 75% extra
All tech starts at level 3 NOT CHECKED.

At the year 2505 with 78 planets I have 123k resources and 111 tech level and most planets are full of mineral stockpiles Smile



Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 11 December 2006 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
also with the help of StarEd. Flux Capacitor is actually adding 50 percent more to fire-power. and Meta Morphs are bricks made of combo-boxes. and mini colonizer has 3 extra slots(also combo)... any planets to near and too soon in gameplay will be bombed clean and colonized. now that's cool.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 11 December 2006 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
So you're a new one here? Welcome!

Now to more serious business. Wink IMO you need to read some posts here to get a preper feeling about capabilities of races and strenght balancing.

Neo the White wrote on Mon, 11 December 2006 14:26

At the year 2505 with 78 planets I have 123k resources and 111 tech level and most planets are full of mineral stockpiles Smile

I'm affraid that's a not cool result, even for a testbed. I could quite easily get those resources at turn 60 from a small universe with a proper CA race. Shocked To quote one of players here: "If anybody just sneezes in your general direction in first 50 turns, you're dead."

What's really cool is a self-sufficient race without weaknesses. Your race isn't, as it has two really big weaknesses(all tech expensive and mines cost 9), two big ones (no start @ 3 and wrong/too many LRTs) and a small one (not enough mines operated).

I know 3-immune HE is appealing. It was the first race I tried when I got Stars!, but unfortunately it is quite weak in a "larger than small" PBEM games, because it starts slowly and has no gates. Only if it can grow for first ~50 turns in peace it can become a real monster. But other, faster races know that and will not give them that time.

What I'd suggest you is leave HE for some time. You should read the Stars! - Must Know section of the Academy, especially Tutorial - How to get over 25k resources by 2450 (BEGINNER). Do several testbeds with that race. Then try other proposed designs to get better feeling on the game mechanics and race behaviour. Then you'll look back at your "cool HE" and will redesign it properly. Wink

BR, Iztok
...

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 11 December 2006 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
Thanks for welcome


As to response... I do not view all tech expensive as an disadvantage. all my races are made so. it gives the points I need to have good factory settings. I want to have productive population and good factories and mines. the cost of mine is IMO also OK for the race can afford it. unlike a race with population workefficiency of 1/2500. So there will be no working mines as you see I have it 10/21.


I aim towards long time high production and strong settings at now but I am not into rushing for the max. What is a race that makes 15k or 25k resources at end of 50 turns and then if it will have 2 times less resources at the later years??? No I don't think that this is success or anything and you know hard play is part of the game.

I also can make a CA race, that get's the same in about 60 years.

also those negative LRT are to balance the points, I see nothing wrong with for example Low Starting Population as with 12% pop gets grows soon over it.



[Updated on: Mon, 11 December 2006 13:34]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 11 December 2006 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
The slow steady approach is a winning strategy when fighting the AIs.

However, humans grow much faster, and by 2450 you'll probably be in a major war, if your opponent has 2x your resources, and doesn't do some of the idiotic things the AIs do, you'll be wiped out.

If you only want to play slow games vs the AIs, then take the slow steady approach and have fun. Which, given the mods you're doing, seems most likely.

If you want to build up some practice for fighting against humans some day, then you're going to have grow faster. The other alternative is to set some game rules that limit growth, but you'll need to be playing against people, or accept some limits on your races when fighting the AI (which probably isn't a bad thing, although I've never done it).

One thing that you may not realize about playing with people, is that some things just go faster because you're playing with people who arn't all your enemy. For example, you can often intersettle and/or use allies bases for refueling, which extends your colonization range considerably. Also, tech trading will boost your research quite a bit. And, you don't need to constantly defend (although being obviously defenseless is a bad idea), because NAPs and alliances will limit your conflict area quite a bit.



- LEit

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Thu, 21 December 2006 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
I actually play nowadays only vs AI.

if the alliances are there(and the limited are of conflict) then the slow steady approach isn't it just as cool then.


[Updated on: Thu, 21 December 2006 06:33]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Thu, 21 December 2006 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Neo the White wrote on Thu, 21 December 2006 12:32

I actually play nowadays only vs AI.

Don't. You'll pick some bad habits that could cost you a game when you'll play in a PBEM game.

To make myself more clear: I'm currently playing a small normal game as a 3-immune 7% PGR AR versus 3 allied AIs: AR, HE and SS. Despite HE has 3 times my resouces, 21 more tech levels (has met 3 tech-giving MTs, me none - its known tech levels are weap-20 (me 16), prop-20 (me 14), bio-10 (me 7)), I'm wiping the floor with it using just simple jihad CCs, that are on the battlefield for more than 30 turns. Now, when HE started fielding speed 2.25, armored (2500 DP armor) MetaMorphs with 8 MiniBlasters those 20 CCs don't have enough FP to kill them fast enough, so I started building jugg BBs. By my experience with AI that's the last design I'll need to field.

For a comparisson: with live players those jihad CCs would have a lifespan of ~5 turns, then they'd become obsolete by jihad BBs, whose would go to pension just ~10 turns after they'd be built.

My piece of advice: if you EVER intend to go on-line, play against AI as you'd play against live players. That will save you a lot of frustration.

BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Thu, 21 December 2006 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Another point worth noting...if you're modding stars with StarEd you usually break the AI players.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Sat, 23 December 2006 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
thank you.

Quote:

Another point worth noting...if you're modding stars with StarEd you usually break the AI players.



Well yeah they don't use all slots for example of a greatly modded Meta Morph.

they aren't built for it but then the unmodded Stars! gets boring pretty quick. It's kinda too simple.

As to my playing with AI's I always upgrade my ships whenever a new tech comes out for the sake of getting my space clean of AI HE fleets and to deal with PP. I alwasy choose most AI's expert and only some specific races as tough as well as The AI will produce race with different PRT then(whether IS or CE). So it prooves difficult to deal with them all especially hard is the PP.

Bu then AI keeps away from me if I am SS or WM, except PP ofcourse.

But I would one day like to take part of PBEM game only have to remember how it is done.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 08 January 2007 03:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

I posted this in another thread that mentioned this -- cost 9 mines is a very bad idea. Doubly so with HE, since you don't have much in the way of resources. Once you burn through your initial pile of Germanium your economy will hit a severe and long-lasting mineral shortage. Better to have cost 3 mines and worse efficiency - mines with 10 eff and 3 cost are equivalent to mines with 9 cost and 30 efficiency.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 08 January 2007 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
yes noted it and thanx

I am kinda shifiting myself from long time of playing only against AI. what prooved fun and useful there is not in a game against another RI (Real Intelligence) haha.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 08 January 2007 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Humans are unpredictable and eccentric and deviously sneaky, and far far better strategists. You will learn much. Twisted Evil

You haven't played Stars! until you have had your homeworld bombed in 2412, or had to contend with 98%-cloaked armed minelaying rogues interfering with your shipping, or run afoul of a fast-moving and talented SD out to show off what it can do...

Be paranoid.


[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2007 12:23]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 08 January 2007 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Side note: Getting my HW bombed in 2412 was sort of a unique occurrence. I was playing a blitz game against Summoner in a tiny packed and accidentally selected Close starting positions instead of Distant. My -f IS didn't stand much chance against a 1ww JoaT around 50ly away.
I've been on the giving end of plenty surprise-poundings out of nowhere too. People that've blitzed against me may remember the Vloz'ress. Twisted Evil Now that was a fast race...


[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2007 12:36]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 08 January 2007 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Coyote wrote on Mon, 08 January 2007 19:37

I posted this in another thread that mentioned this -- cost 9 mines is a very bad idea. Doubly so with HE, since you don't have much in the way of resources. Once you burn through your initial pile of Germanium your economy will hit a severe and long-lasting mineral shortage. Better to have cost 3 mines and worse efficiency - mines with 10 eff and 3 cost are equivalent to mines with 9 cost and 30 efficiency.


Well, that's not quite accurate, as you aren't taking into account mineral depletion - a smaller number of better mines will get you more minerals *total* out of a world than a large number of worse mines. The interesting bit is determining the break even point where the more efficient race catches up in terms of total minerals extracted as compared to a less efficient version with the same RW points spend in mining.

Of course higher efficency costs many more RW points than you gain from increasing cost per mine, for this very reason Wink

I still agree with you in that cost 9 is a bad idea - reducing cost per mine is so cheap right down to cost 3 that I find it very hard to justify even cost 4 or cost 5.


[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2007 20:19]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Mon, 08 January 2007 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 08 January 2007 17:18


Well, that's not quite accurate, as you aren't taking into account mineral depletion - a smaller number of better mines will get you more minerals *total* out of a world than a large number of worse mines.



Sure, if you live long enough to reap the rewards anyhow. It helps to have iron available quickly to put into ships - and lots of fighting ships all at once means more expansion room and colonies, which mean more minerals! Wheeee!
Yey


[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2007 22:56]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Wed, 10 January 2007 01:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Cool 6% 3-immune HE? Laughing

6% HE is growing no way like the HG ITs, ISs and JOATs around. Also it has not that many RW points like say 5% or 4% HE so got to be conservative in spending them.

I mean not that conservative like said HGs but still conservative. May take something like ... 14/8/18/G factories and 11/3/19 mines (or maybe slightly worse) and still may find points for 2 cheap technologies. Smile On any case it needs not to take suicide traits like all tech expensive or LSP. Confused

HE colonies are weak and gateless, so it should find points for ISB in order to defend them early against other players. Rolling Eyes If it keeps its hands away from luxury goodies like IFE and/or UR then its not that hard to find points for ISB. Nod


[Updated on: Wed, 10 January 2007 01:34]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Fri, 12 January 2007 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neo the White is currently offline Neo the White

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
ISB seems a clear must for this race...

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Thu, 04 December 2008 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
6% HE can grow at a similar rate to most 19% HG races, as few of them breach 11-12% achieved growth. 6% 3i HE if played right will break the 25k/2450 mark easily (30-35k range), though not as easily as certain ITs and CAs (50-60k for ITs, 80-200 (!) k for CAs). Rolling Eyes

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Thu, 04 December 2008 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johng316 is currently offline johng316

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
Never mind... LOL

[Updated on: Thu, 04 December 2008 15:03]




All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Fri, 05 December 2008 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
Huh? What? Confused

Report message to a moderator

Re: Cool HE Fri, 05 December 2008 08:13 Go to previous message
johng316 is currently offline johng316

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
Oh, I was just ragging on everyone for discouraging the new person and ripping his race apart in the most obnoxious way instead of welcoming him aboard and gently encouraging him to try new things.

Then I realized how old the thread was. Haha.



All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: HE HG-ish 2i
Next Topic: Why 3%?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Fri Mar 29 08:40:25 EDT 2024