| Overcloaking |
Tue, 11 February 2003 00:17  |
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 EDog |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 417
Registered: November 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA | |
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Okay, all you math-type whizzes out there (Zoid, go have a Coke or something)...how about some dissertations on overcloakers and the best way to use them?
Sneaky B@$+@rd EDog
http://ianthealy.com
Born, grew up, became an adventurer
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| Re: Overcloaking |
Tue, 11 February 2003 01:39  |
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Well I've never tried overcloaking but I've read the guts of cloaking and 1+1=2. so...
As I understand it overcloaking is using one ship with far more cloaking devices than it need to achive the 98% max cloaking and fleeting it with un- or less cloaked ship so they become cloaked too 
The formula from the help file is
total device(s) cloak units * empty ship mass
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other ship(s) mass + cargo mass + empty ship mass
which gives a result that is then chewed by what appears to be a 1/2 root function. no matter...the idea is to make this number as big as possible. 1000+ = 98% cloak
The obvious means are:
More cloaking devices.
More overcloaked ships.
Less cargo.
Less other ships.
The sneaky one however is that if you make the unladen weight of the overcloaked ship as high as possible it will dampen the reducing effect of the cargo and other ships' mass to give a higher result. Off the top of my head I'd guess a nubian with tritanium armor. But a maxi-miner with those heavy mining robots...
[Updated on: Tue, 11 February 2003 01:40] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Overcloaking |
Tue, 11 February 2003 07:54 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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Specific for SS?
"Best" OC is the bomber hull that for their PRT only (can't remember the name) with te best cloack. You need bombers anyway and they are heavy so why waste an extra design on an OC. But never tried this  maybe you need more bombers to overcloack than you need to bomb. 
Other races:
Nub with heaviest engine (if you have prop23 don't use that engine, use the green one, adds some extra weight) 6 slots of tritanium armor (heaviest item) and 6 slots of your best cloack.
Keep in mind they are far from gate-able You might want a nub full with cloacks instead but those are less effective.
SD ... well, they have an even heavier component than the armor, their speed bumps, which makes the cloack more effective but also a lot more expensive and probably not worth it, even not with the double use the OC gets ...
I'll leave that to the super brains to compare costs, at max tech or whatever,
regards,
mch
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| Re: Overcloaking |
Wed, 12 February 2003 07:19 |
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| Micha wrote on Tue, 11 February 2003 07:54 |
Other races:
[snip]
Nub with heaviest engine (if you have prop23 don't use that engine, use the green one, adds some extra weight) 6 slots of tritanium armor (heaviest item) and 6 slots of your best cloack.
Keep in mind they are far from gate-able You might want a nub full with cloacks instead but those are less effective.
SD ... well, they have an even heavier component than the armor, their speed bumps, which makes the cloack more effective but also a lot more expensive and probably not worth it, even not with the double use the OC gets ...
I'll leave that to the super brains to compare costs, at max tech or whatever,
regards,
mch
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IS can use speedbumps as well if they wish. And I generally like the utility of being able to suddenly lay a pile of mines as well.
[Anti-infiltration group; over-cloaker(s), TD/scanner ship, plus a "killer" unit to finish off whatever is trying to sneak in. Very hard to see, but it can see you, stop you, and then kill you. All due respect to SS, but I think IS owns late-game stealth fighting.]
And actually - you might want to use that Prop23 engine. With the weight the design is gonna suck fuel down fast - so the improved efficiency is probably worth some weight. And if you have ramscoops you want to use the best ramscoop you have for the same reason.
And "best" design would depend on how you measure it. Extra kt cloaked/hull; Extra kt cloaked/iron spent; Extra kt cloaked/resource, etc. etc. etc.
I've seen cloak/Trit ratios of 6:6; 7:5; 8:4, etc. to meet different criteria.
- Kurt
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
- Groucho MarxReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Overcloaking |
Sun, 16 March 2003 04:55 |
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| Micha |
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Marduk wrote on Sun, 16 March 2003 02:03 |
When using a nubian for overcloaking, consider giving it a single weapon to keep the enemy from destroying it with 'kill unarmed' orders. If you have enough other unarmed ships in the fleet it probably isn't necessary but if the overcloakers are your only unarmed type they would be a tempting target. The problem here is battle orders, but if your overcloaker is a little slow it's not likely to matter.
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Your OCs shouldn't be present in the battle! So unless the enemy takes you by surprise and his goal is to destroy your OCs they should be safe.
Adding a weapon will make the OC less efficient, simply split them off when you send your fleet into battle, this way the enemy might be even more wondering where the hell that fleet came from  he should never know the existence of your OCs
This is however a good idea for your robber barron ships, putting a weapon on them, this way they will be protected by your chaff and the enemy can't easily kill your raiding ships.
Of course make sure they have chicken orders (and not the once that are Stars! default, adjust them!)
regards,
mch
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| Re: Overcloaking |
Mon, 17 March 2003 17:28 |
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| Micha |
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Marduk wrote on Mon, 17 March 2003 02:46 |
You need your overcloakers in the battle if you intend to keep the fleet hidden. If you split the attack ships off, they will be visible for at least two years instead of only one - the year after the attack they'll be visible because they were seen in the battle, and also the year you send them back to the overcloakers.
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The year you send them back to the OCs you let them _merge_ with the OCs (or the OCs with your battle fleet), this way your warships will _not_ be visible and your enemy will not have seen your OCs anywhere.
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If your overcloakers are only intended to get the ships to one target, you are correct. My preferred use for overcloakers is for escorted bomber fleets. It's handy for them to be able to hide after a strike so they can hit again somewhere else. And if you are pulling the 'tempting target' trick with a cloaked fleet escorting an uncloaked fleet, the overcloakers will have to be present.
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True if you are luring your enemy to a what seems to be an poorly defended planet your OCs should be there, unless you can predict the year he will attack and retreat them.
But how often does that work? A smart player will be probing your planets with his chaff to detect such fleets, especially if you fooled him once he will be much more carefull, and that would mean you made a less efficient OC design just for one "surprise defense" ... now in some cases that one battle might be worth it ...
regards,
mch
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| Re: Overcloaking |
Sun, 28 September 2003 18:10 |
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| mcvos |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 7
Registered: September 2003
Location: Netherland | |
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Sorry to bring an old thread up again, but this was recently discussed on the news group.
I calculated that the ideal overcloaker for a SS is a nubian, your best engine (ramscoop if possible), 6 ultra cloaks and 6 tritanium.
Someone else calculated that this was only true as long as you have bio tech less than level 13. Beyond that (which will happen to a SS if some people keep doing lots of bio research) crobnium is better than tritanium, because it becomes sufficiently cheaper so you can afford to build the necessary extra OC.
For non-SS races, the optimum is 8 super cloaks and 4 tritanium or crobmium. I'm not sure where the breakpoint between trit and crob lies there. If IS uses speedbumps instead (a good idea), I don't know what the optimal balance between those and super cloaks is either.
And yes, IS owns the late game cloaking. Not because of the speed traps, but because of that annoying tachyon scanner. Exterminate them before they can build those things.
mcv.
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