Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » AR » My Custom Race, Insight? Input?
My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Fri, 03 February 2006 10:15 Go to next message
Iperithon is currently offline Iperithon

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: January 2006
Location: BC, Canada

My Custom Race i'm working with...

Necroids
Primary: Alternate Reality (Wanted to try this ^^)
Lesser: IFE, ARM, IS, MA, LSP
Ranges: 0.12g - 0.92g, -200c - 0c, Immune to Radiation
Growth: 12%
Resorces: 10 (er... was unlike normal factory stuff cause of AR)
Research:
En - 75%
Wep - 0%
Prop - 75%
Const - -50%
Elec - 75%
Bio - 0%
All 75% at tech 3 - yes!

Now, i'v got alot of other Inputs towards this race
Kotk wrote on Fri, 03 February 2006 08:22

AR? I like AR. Smile
My comments ...
LRTs: MA is bad others are ok. Just that if you got expensive propulsion then NRSE is also good idea, gives you warp 10 engine earlier.

Hab: 1 in 4 is hard to afford with so lot of goodies.
Edged hab is bad idea because there are very few planets at gravity and temperature edges and later you can terraform the few that are. Moving ... 0.16 to 1.08 and -168 to 16 is possible with pure gain in all fields of race design but i would take even pair of clicks farther from edges. Other thing about hab is that it is better to have wide gravity + narrow temperature for AR.

Growth: 12 with LSP is really low. Try to have 15 at least.

Resources: 10 is my favorite too.

Tech: AR never wins with 0 friends so weapons normal is not so bad idea. Energy expensive however is quite terrible. You got to aim for energy 6 by turn 5 or 6 so your HW can research lots of construction for cheaper cargo vessels and maybe better miners (with ARM you got to use construction 7 miners before construction 15). Why bio ... AR needs no much bio, so take it expensive. Also start at 3 slows you only down early.

Try:
LRTS: IFE, ARM, IS, NRSE, LSP
Hab: 0.21 to 4.64 / -140 to -52 / immune
Growth: 15
Resource divisor: 10
Energy -0%, weapons -0%, construction -50%, rest +75%
no start at 3. .. 4 leftover points to concentrations.
It got similar strengths but less weaknesses and so performs lot better. Nod




so from what i figured what Ktok said...
I'll try it, and then post a report on what i felt about this build



"Your GP, or your HP" - Thief
"Stabbity Death!" - Black Mage
"Mmmm... Sword-chucks..." - Fighter

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sat, 04 February 2006 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rowenstin is currently offline rowenstin

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 38
Registered: December 2005
Mineral Alchemy? Isnīt the "mineral fountain" good enough?

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sat, 04 February 2006 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Also you should try to get en cheap or normal - your resources are partly dependent on your en tech, so exp is going to hurt.

[Updated on: Sat, 04 February 2006 20:24]

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sun, 05 February 2006 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomasoid is currently offline Tomasoid

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 182
Registered: December 2005
Location: Ukraine

Hi!

IMO, MA, LSP, En75%, Bio 0% and Weap 0% are not very right choices. MA is not needed with ARM at all for any race. LSP would make AR start badly (at least 2 years behind). En75% is AR economy killer - Energy is your resources. Bio 0% - what you need Bio for? You did not select TT, did you? Weap 0% - AR is very fragile at midgame, so having good weapons and construction at that stage (often better than your opponet's) is very important for AR.



WBR, Vlad

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sun, 05 February 2006 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Tomasoid wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 18:48

LSP would make AR start badly (at least 2 years behind).

Surprised AR is best race to take LSP with. Only 14% less starting resources sound really not so bad comparing to 30% less that other PTRs get.

LSP gives about 60 points, so when you take LSP you can usually take click of growth or some tech cheaper. Early resources depend mostly on energy research and colonization (2200 pop in pinta). With LSP you can concentrate on these two longer thanks your HW starts to breed later.


[Updated on: Sun, 05 February 2006 16:57]

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sun, 05 February 2006 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Quote:

AR is best race to take LSP with. Only 14% less starting resources sound really not so bad comparing to 30% less that other PTRs get

I think that depends on type of AR. Eventually AR runs out of energy and extra greens to spread to for growth, pop still matters for mid game resources and bit extra mining.

An AR with 12% growth is hurt more by LSP than an AR with 16% pop growth assuming same number of immunities.

...

IMO the best other races for LSP are high pop growth HE and certain fairly high pop growth HP powers (who need bit more time before colonising).

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sun, 05 February 2006 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
multilis wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 12:08

IMO the best other races for LSP are high pop growth HE and certain fairly high pop growth HP powers (who need bit more time before colonising).

Mineless races would also need a bit more time and might benefit - but I think I'm the only one that is interested in those.

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Sun, 05 February 2006 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iperithon is currently offline Iperithon

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: January 2006
Location: BC, Canada

Hrm... well i tried it, and it was neat.

I was also looking at the idea of... a One World Wonder (i think that's the term)

On a AR race, It seems it -could- work out, if you set your resources per year to... like 7-8
And also have a Really Messed up Hab Band, with no immunitys

I made it so there was a 1-128 chance. (I Did find 3 planets i could habitate though)

And built lots of Defenders for my base...

You know what... in between makeing this note... yha... Scrap that idea Very Happy



"Your GP, or your HP" - Thief
"Stabbity Death!" - Black Mage
"Mmmm... Sword-chucks..." - Fighter

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Mon, 06 February 2006 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Quote:

Mineless races would also need a bit more time and might benefit - but I think I'm the only one that is interested in those.

Laughing, I have interest just because they are rare. There are growth curve issues (takes iron to make iron) and micromanagement issues. Some options suggested are few mines rather than none, and -f being a little more accomodating at times with -m as needs less minerals.

I also have interest in 2i AR because it supposedly doesn't work... possibly workable but you need to think really different.

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Mon, 06 February 2006 02:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1189
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
multilis wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 07:11

I also have interest in 2i AR because it supposedly doesn't work... possibly workable but you need to think really different.

They do work ... somehow ... , but to get points for a second immunity they need to pay for it either with growth about 13 and "normal" res divisor, or with res divisor 1/25 and "normal" growth. In both cases they can't afford much of good tech and LRTs. The net result is in both cases a slow race that's only marginaly usefull for its neighbours. And we know what happens to such races: 2 Guns Dead Whip
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Mon, 06 February 2006 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomasoid is currently offline Tomasoid

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 182
Registered: December 2005
Location: Ukraine

Kotk wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 23:17

Tomasoid wrote on Sun, 05 February 2006 18:48

LSP would make AR start badly (at least 2 years behind).

Surprised AR is best race to take LSP with. Only 14% less starting resources sound really not so bad comparing to 30% less that other PTRs get.

LSP gives about 60 points, so when you take LSP you can usually take click of growth or some tech cheaper. Early resources depend mostly on energy research and colonization (2200 pop in pinta). With LSP you can concentrate on these two longer thanks your HW starts to breed later.



Hmm... Well, I did not examined LSP AR much before. I always though that for AR "later colonization" usually means "less starting resources" because spread effect.

Anyway, I tried this out by comparing in my Excel AR calculator and see that with 10 planets there is a certain loss in starting resources by taking LSP, so LSP races might be worse in tense universe. Later in the game, they become better.

I think I will reconsider LSP use for AR for large universes. As I see, for larger maps it does not matters much - you have time to grow, and after year 30 or so with better growth taken because thous 60 point you will start to make it better than without LSP. For smaller maps LSP for AR might be dangerous.



WBR, Vlad

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Mon, 06 February 2006 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Quote:

pay for it either with growth about 13

imo that part isn't so bad as your greens are better which balances out mid game. A 66% green at 13% is like a 50% green at 17% growth.

Quote:

They do work ... 2 Guns Dead


When I say work, I mean able to win game rather than testbed. You have to sacrifice something and best your enemies don't know what and how you plan on fighting them. On plus you have better greens and faster terraforming.

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Mon, 06 February 2006 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1189
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
multilis wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 17:16

imo that part isn't so bad as your greens are better which balances out mid game. A 66% green at 13% is like a 50% green at 17% growth.

Well, true, but at turn 35 a race with 13% PGR will have about 3M pop (with 11% effective growth). OTOH the 17% race with 14% effective growth will have 8-9M! Even with that sqrt in resource formula that means 17% race will have about 70% more resources. With fixed costs of tech, terra and ships that means BIG lag for the 13% race.

Quote:

When I say work, I mean able to win game rather than testbed. You have to sacrifice something and best your enemies don't know what and how you plan on fighting them. On plus you have better greens and faster terraforming.

Whatever design I tried with 2-immune ARs I was not able to get three "critical" growth techs - UltraStation, super robo-miner and temp terra-11 before turn 32, even if I excluded anything else from research and building: no elec for (currently not needed) miners, not a single level in weapons, only prop 2 for FM, no minelayers... Other PRTs are usually able to field jihad CCs around that time. Now you can ask yourself with what means can such a poor AR stop a dozen or two jihad CCs that are destroying two of its orbitals per turn? No weapons tech to arm orbitals, no iron to build defensive ships or missiles on orbitals... Dead Dead Dead

I admit I'm biased against ARs. I can't stand the fact that my early survival is greatly dependant on the mercy of my neighbours Yuck . Compared to 1-immune ARs has the 2-immune AR that period of vulnerability suicidaly long, and just asks to be attacked early.

Multis, if you manage to put together a 2-immune AR that you'd think could win a game with other races, I'm ready to prove you wrong with my 1-immune AR in a duel Dueling in tiny packed or small sparse uni. FYI I fielded an AR only in one all-AR game, and the game ended before turn 35 with too many players dropped. However I did extensive research with AR. Not really successfull - I couldn't make them work the way I'd like. Sad
BR, Iztok

(Edit) To moderator: probably this discussion fits better to the Bar or the AR section?


[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2006 19:09]

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Mon, 06 February 2006 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
multilis is currently offline multilis

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 789
Registered: October 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
I'll look at the duel concept, I assume acc-BBS start. The rules/tuning are a little different in a duel.

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Tue, 07 February 2006 02:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1189
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
multilis wrote on Tue, 07 February 2006 02:41

I'll look at the duel concept, I assume acc-BBS start. The rules/tuning are a little different in a duel.

Whatever you wish. If you wish more players we can even expand that duel into a single-winner game with diplomacy allowed. I'd just like to show you the 2-immune AR is a bad choice for most kind of a game.

Well, if you want that issue to be proven. After re-reading your message I realized you only stated you're "interested in 2i AR because it supposedly doesn't work". Sorry to jump on you with my duel proposal so early. Just remember you have a sparring partner Boxing if you'd like to check your design.
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Topic moved (Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input?) Tue, 07 February 2006 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
iztok wrote on Tue, 07 February 2006 00:41

To moderator: probably this discussion fits better to the Bar or the AR section?


I turn my back and ARs are all over the Academy again! Back to your orbitals!
UFO abduction Whip

mch,
modaw


[Updated on: Tue, 07 February 2006 03:12]

Report message to a moderator

Re: My Custom Race, Insight? Input? Wed, 20 June 2007 07:43 Go to previous message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
I wonder if multilis and iztok ever had that duel ...

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: Anyone got a good race design for AR?
Next Topic: AR - LSP vs CE; LSP vs GR
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Aug 19 19:36:02 EDT 2019