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AR and UR Tue, 11 October 2005 04:55 Go to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
SinicalIdealist wrote on Fri, 09 September 2005 04:14


Quote:


Later game the IFE does little good, while other LRTs do more. For example (imo underrated) UR is lovely for slots and quick boosts to frontiers throughout game (eg need a gate or armed stardock in hurry).



UR is underrated for a reason: It's benefit is far outweighed by its cost.

It's great for throwing resources at a distant colony for a non-IT, but you have to throw a TON of resources at that colony. From there, add in how much you could improve your economy with the 100 some odd RW points UR costs. I could see some potential use for UR w/ certain HPs.

-Gakl



I have to disagree here!

UR is expensive yes, but not that expensive. It depends on your play style - if you go for max resources it does not help, but it really helps to speed up the growth!
There will be a point in the game when you have most planets well built up and some very bad yellows left (say -15% or worse).
To get them to work quickly UR does really help, of course one should not plan to double the resource-output of such a planet, but a 50% gain is achieved quite easisly. And if you got some old designs anyway (or scrappers) then it is more or less "for free".

I have some posting somewhere here which shows the boost and gives some numbers about that... it is significant, really!

Another nice tactical advantage is that you can nearly double the output on a planet if needed (and "gate" mins). This can be used to finish a big starbase, produce a large mineral packet on a relatively small planet, build defenses etc...

Dont get me wrong: UR will of course not increase overall resources, UR does not really help to have an increase in minerals when scrapping (the bonus is not that great) and also scrapping ships from other players is usually not worht it (so trade obsolate designs from allies)...
But it is the best method to speed up small planets and have one more tactical advantage...

UR is IMHO the most underestimated LRT in th
...



[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2005 04:52] by Moderator





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Re: AR designs - post your best here!! Tue, 11 October 2005 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
I agree that UR can be useful for HP-s of other PRT-s to speed small planet development if you like the MM involved. But ... what good it has for AR? AR is -f-m-d, one-immune and terraforms fast enough... so what to boost there?

Arrow Lets first look from race design point of view? Arrow Hmm i dropped both energy and weapons to normal, dropped IFE, dropped ARM, took NAS. All that just to get good results in tiny packed. Cool You must agree that most of these are lot more profitable things for AR than UR? Rolling Eyes

Arrow Lets then look from econ point of view? Arrow Most of the early game AR simply has no minerals to build something very temporary. Nod Besides these 10 early scouts, 10-20 early freighters theres nothing to scrap. Crying or Very Sad Later ... AR is very difficult to beat anyway. I suspect UR makes it harder to reach that "later" because additinal weakness needs to be taken somewhere to pay for it in RW. Confused

Arrow Lets finally look from strategic point of view? Arrow Single (non-HW) planet has usually only statistical value for AR. There are no planetary gadgets to worry about so basically AR can come and go when it like. Very Happy What matters is quantity of such planets. Nod Its even never too important to get a gate up in a hurry at some single spot in danger. Say there is lot of pop and pile of minerals present then there must be is gate already. If there are no minerals and pop then nothing to lose so why to bother boosting that poor thing? Rolling Eyes
...

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Re: AR designs - post your best here!! Tue, 11 October 2005 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany

Well.....

AR does need ironium very much and it is easy to build "puser" that cost boranium only - for the boost it is not important which mineral was used...

You are right that AR is -f -m, but the terraforming for AR is important as it does not only increase the max-pop, in contrast to all other PRT it effects resources directly. I did some testbed for AR and found that AR profits most from UR...
(I used a one immune by the way, so early terraforming is more efficient than with 3 wide habs...)

Another point is that AR usually mines most at the homeworld and needs to distribute minerals from there. It is quite costly, but a minor point is that an AR can build ships, gate them and scrap them at the destination - nearly all of the mins are recovered and most of the resources if you dont send too much...
It is still expensive, but not as expensive as packets and much faster... depends on universe size ofc...

When I find the time I will compare AR terraforming with and without UR and see if the result is signifficant or not, ok???

You are more an AR expert than I am, and the hab settings are quite important...

Anyway... maybe I am wrong??? Maybe I am right...

With non AR I used UR quite a lot recently and I liked it very much...



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Re: AR designs - post your best here!! Tue, 11 October 2005 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Yep. Nod Test it. I must admit that i havent tested UR with AR much. Unlike other -f AR cant set its factories 5/25/5 to gain pile of points. Luxuries like IFE ARM and ISB really feel (ISB is simply must to have). So ... i havent managed to design a good looking AR with luxuries like UR or TT ... but who knows. Smile

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Re: AR and UR Thu, 13 October 2005 04:53 Go to previous message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
AR and UR comments split off into a new thread,

mch,
modaw

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