Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » IT » New race, I think its a hybrid tho... (split off)
New race, I think its a hybrid tho... (split off) Thu, 01 September 2005 20:16 Go to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
New race, I think its a hybrid tho...

IT

NRSE
NAS

.96 - 2.00
Immune
55 - 89

18% growth
1/10 habitable

1/1600

15/10
8/1
18/10000
check for costs 1 less

10/10
3/1
15/10000

weap. and con. normal, rest expensive
no check for start at 3



If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Thu, 01 September 2005 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
dethdukk wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 10:16

New race, I think its a hybrid tho...

IT

NRSE
NAS

.96 - 2.00
Immune
55 - 89

18% growth
1/10 habitable

1/1600

15/10
8/1
18/10000
check for costs 1 less

10/10
3/1
15/10000

weap. and con. normal, rest expensive
no check for start at 3


The usual convention to describe economy settings is:
<efficiency>/<cost>/<operated> <g cost> Smile

So your economy settings could be concisely described as:
1/1600
15/8/18 3g
10/3/15
Which (I find) is a little easier to compare Wink my 2 cents

I think this race might find itself short on germanium in the early/mid game (until it gets enough super-miners up, which is going to take a long time), and the research settings could prove quickly fatal in anything smaller than a large universe (unless you do an excellent job of hiding your HP-ness.) And yes, it certainly looks like a hybrid rather than a pure HP.

If you change it back to a pure-HP 1/2500 you could free up enough points to make weap and con cheap, improve minining to 12/3/15 or better, buy some improved mineral concentrations (ever played minimum ger conc with a HP...) widen habs a little *and*, just to top it all off - bring it back on topic Wink

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Thu, 01 September 2005 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
Quote:

just to top it all off - bring it back on topic Wink


Ha ha. I dont want to make it a full HP, because then it WOULD be too slow. The mines are accually working in games I've played, I just have to stock up my HW to get it to full power.



If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Fri, 02 September 2005 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
dethdukk wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 11:56

Ha ha. I dont want to make it a full HP, because then it WOULD be too slow. The mines are accually working in games I've played, I just have to stock up my HW to get it to full power.


So I take it your answer to this whole thread is therefore No

Maybe we should Dueling --- I reckon I could 2 Guns the race you just posted with a pure HP IT design Nana nana bubu

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Fri, 02 September 2005 05:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Dogthinkers wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 03:15

... - bring it back on topic Wink

Split off to a new hybrid topic,

mch,
modaw

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Fri, 02 September 2005 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
dethdukk wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 03:56

Ha ha. I dont want to make it a full HP, because then it WOULD be too slow.

Changing pop effeciency and not going all the way to 1/2500 is considered to be "not worth the points" ... (you can search the newsgroup for several remarks on that)

mch

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Fri, 02 September 2005 05:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
dethdukk wrote on Fri, 02 September 2005 04:56

I dont want to make it a full HP, because then it WOULD be too slow.

To me your race looks more like HG with broken legs. Laughing
Say we unbreak the legs...
LRTs:
Add OBRM
Econ to:
1/1000
13/9/16 3g
10/3/17
Tech:
Weapons to cheap.

If we then compare result with the original...
Your race got 2% less econ per planet, way longer ramp up, trouble with germanium and inability to defend itself. Razz
Dogthinker is right that this topic is about HP-s not how to wuss up HG-s. Wink

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Fri, 02 September 2005 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
Quote:

So I take it your answer to this whole thread is therefore No

Maybe we should Dueling --- I reckon I could 2 Guns the race you just posted with a pure HP IT design


I may be saying that... I guess the only way to find out is to duel Twisted Evil


[Updated on: Fri, 02 September 2005 22:02]




If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Mon, 05 September 2005 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
dethdukk wrote on Sat, 03 September 2005 11:59

I may be saying that... I guess the only way to find out is to duel Twisted Evil


Cool. How about this:

Size: small
Density: normal
Distance: further (I think this leads to fairest positions?)
ACCBS: on
PPS: on
All other options: off
Victory condition: At least 250% of other player's score on or after 2450

Since we are both same PRT it will lead to a fairer game if we make sure the secondary HW planets are fairly comparable. I suggest we email each other the starting hab and ger concentration of our starting worlds. If either vary by more than, let's say 20, then we could regen. It might take a few attempts...

I'm assuming you are playing the race you posted up before (that's the point of the duel, after all Wink ) but don't worry I haven't made a counterdesign (counterdesign HP? Is that even possible?) Wink It's a fairly typical IT HP and I'm ready to go. If you want I can give you the race specs so neither of us is ahead on knowledge.

I suspect you'll probably eat me alive - Even though I think your race is broken it can't be slower than an HP in a duel... But we'll see soon enough... Twisted Evil

Email me: dogthinker AT gmail DOT com

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Mon, 05 September 2005 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
So you will be running the duel? I may change con. to exp. and weap. to cheap, but thats it.


If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Mon, 05 September 2005 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
I think we should both run it - if we pass the host file back and forth with the turn files we can get 2 turns done at a time (one incoming, gen, then one outgoing.)

Shoot me over your race file and I'll crank up the game. Should be fun, I've never actually played a duel before... Smug Hopefully it will be quick enough that I don't get too attached to my empire before you bring it down in flames Sad

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Mon, 05 September 2005 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 05 September 2005 20:54

I think we should both run it - if we pass the host file back and forth with the turn files we can get 2 turns done at a time (one incoming, gen, then one outgoing.)

I wouldn't recommend doing that. I did this once with mazda in the previous championship (or another duel with mazda, not sure) it got quite confusing at some time, to make things worse I occasionally had the chance to play at work so also had "a" version of the .hst file there ... Confused

mch

Report message to a moderator

Re: Is HP IT possible? Mon, 05 September 2005 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
I will run the duel, just send me your race with a password. My email is dtwillson-at-thegeek-dot-nu

[Updated on: Mon, 05 September 2005 20:27]




If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Tue, 20 September 2005 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Well, from our statistically conclusive sample of 1 whole game... Wink ... It seems 1600 eff doesn't run well compared to 2500 eff. The eff lost out to superior mining efficiency, wider habs, cheaper/more factories. Result was clear from 2425, and surrendered on 2438.

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Tue, 20 September 2005 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
Very true. I can only hope it works in this multiplayer game... Sad By the way, good game Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 20 September 2005 19:48]




If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Wed, 21 September 2005 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
That's quite early for it to be obviously worse than a standard HP.
With the 15/8 factory settings and the 50% more resources from pop you will initially grow quicker than the HP.
The HP should only start to catch you up when all your factories are maxing to pop.

Maybe it was a combination of low hab *and* the 1/1600 pop resources ?

What hab/race did Dogthinkers take ?

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Wed, 21 September 2005 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
dunno about dogthinkers, however, I had extremly low ironium deposits so I had limited expansion ability, and when I built my first fleet of warships I drained my reserves, couldnt mine fast enough.


If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Wed, 21 September 2005 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
My race had overtaken in resources by PPS at 2420, although was behind in research. This was exactly what I was expecting from spreadsheeting.

I did not have the Iron problems my opponent had, because I had 40% more from the efficiency. I handled all my early - mid expansion using the HW minerals alone.

My colonies developed extremely quickly because of the large quantities of G I was able to export from the HW (again, 14 eff.)

I also found slightly more planets, but this was also expected due to wider habs. In fact I only ever found about 1 in 9 greens despite 1 in 7 habs Sad

IT
NRSE, CE, OBRM, NAS, ISB
Grav: 0.24g to 1.80g
Temp: Immune
Rad: 16mR to 40mR
PGR 17%, 1 in 7
Eff 1 in 2500
15/7/21 4g facs
14/3/15 mines
Weap cheap, rest expensive, no start at 3.
1 leftover point to concentrations

If I played the race again I'd probably try to make con at least normal. I think I'd keep ISB - I didn't build many gates(!) this game so the 20% saving isn't so importnat, however it's real value is in providing a cheap effective defense platform for the early years so you aren't such an easy target for HG races.

I think this race might even do OK in a duel with a HG race, but I don't think I want to test that theory right now Wink

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Wed, 21 September 2005 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
mazda wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 23:49

That's quite early for it to be obviously worse than a standard HP.
With the 15/8 factory settings and the 50% more resources from pop you will initially grow quicker than the HP.
The HP should only start to catch you up when all your factories are maxing to pop.

Maybe it was a combination of low hab *and* the 1/1600 pop resources ?

What hab/race did Dogthinkers take ?




I've posted the race and some comments above. I think it's fairly typical, but then I haven't spent much time reseaching them. I did spend a fair amount of time thinking about speed, so it may be a little faster than average...

The result was very clear. HP was growing faster, had substantially more resources, minerals and ships. It was a little behind in tech, but this was because it was pushing ship production and had skipped some basic research (i.e. it only went to bio 2.)
      hybrid - hp
planets    9 - 16
starbase   2 - 6
unarmed   24 - 72
escorts   27 - 130
tech      40 - 37
resources 7k - 11k
score    389 - 541


The secondary HW of the hybrid was about to be destroyed by a large fleet of cruisers (gatlings, jihads) and bombers. The hybrid did not have the minerals or resources to be able to compete with ship production.

[edit: fixed spacing]


[Updated on: Wed, 21 September 2005 19:55]

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Wed, 21 September 2005 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
btw - the 9 vs 16 planets looks like a massive difference, but I want to make it clear that this was a result of the other advantages, not the cause - for most of the game there was only 1 difference in the number of colonies owned, and I colonised quite a few yellows.

Shipping speed and rate of factory production were the limiters of growth for this race (as they should be for a HP.)

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Thu, 22 September 2005 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 23:43

I think this race might even do OK in a duel with a HG race, but I don't think I want to test that theory right now Wink

I'd be happy to oblige when my current game finishes.

Your score looks very reasonable, 11k at 2438.
It is around 2440 that HPs start to really take off.

Remember that, by definition, a HP race is one that gets the most capacity out of a given area of space. That is it's ace card. It outproduces other races, eventually.
If any other given race cannot beat it for speed (at some time in the early game) then that race is not really competitive.
HGs, -f and QS would all grow faster over the first 30 years.

That is generally why people do not play HPs in 1 v 1 duels !

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Thu, 22 September 2005 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
mazda wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 18:19

Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 21 September 2005 23:43

I think this race might even do OK in a duel with a HG race, but I don't think I want to test that theory right now Wink

I'd be happy to oblige when my current game finishes.

Your score looks very reasonable, 11k at 2438.
It is around 2440 that HPs start to really take off.

Remember that, by definition, a HP race is one that gets the most capacity out of a given area of space. That is it's ace card. It outproduces other races, eventually.
If any other given race cannot beat it for speed (at some time in the early game) then that race is not really competitive.
HGs, -f and QS would all grow faster over the first 30 years.

That is generally why people do not play HPs in 1 v 1 duels !



Hehe, yeah, I don't *really* think my HP would do that well against an HG... Well not an aggressive one, anyway...

If you like the resources, then take a look at the universe we were playing in - small normal. In a denser universe (more typical for duel, I think) then the resources would have been substantially higher. Ramp up was accelerating at 2438 and was still well under capacity.

I was very pleased with the early performance I got out of this race, I'd be tempted to take something very similar into a multiplayer (although I did swear of 1in2500 after my slow start in one of my current games... That said I'm now ranked first there, so it paid off eventually... Smile)

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Fri, 23 September 2005 04:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
Dogthinkers wrote on Thu, 22 September 2005 23:53

If you like the resources, then take a look at the universe we were playing in - small normal. In a denser universe (more typical for duel, I think) then the resources would have been substantially higher.


Heh, nothing is typical for duel. People just prefer packed because it is *easier* at the start.

I don't think that 128 planets, in small normal, between 2 players is that overcrowded.
You should get 10 greens, all of which would be good after terra. Did you encounter crowding problems ?
I guess that the slightly shorter travel times you would get in packed may help a bit, but you are IT so not a big deal.
With more greens available you would probably be spread more thinly, with not that much more pop to show for it.

But a good race for a game.
Hab isn't too wide to prevent intersettling if the option occurs, and can concede those middling to high rad planets in border disputes.
Immunity must help at the start on the first few breeders.
Might want to shave the mine eff down for better tech.

Do you think it would improve with ticking the g box for factories ? (e.g. mine eff 13 and facts cost 3g)

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Fri, 23 September 2005 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1211
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
mazda wrote on Fri, 23 September 2005 10:29

Do you think it would improve with ticking the g box for factories ? (e.g. mine eff 13 and facts cost 3g)

I'd say yes. I'd also get rid of the immunity. It is IMO not needed for the HP, as it gets stronger with compounding of factories, not with growing pop. I'd rather invest points in wider hab (1 in 5) and less expensive tech.
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: 2500 eff v 1600 eff Fri, 23 September 2005 13:34 Go to previous message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
I took immunity for 3 reasons:

(1) I like 1-imm too much...
(2) I knew my opponent had 1-imm, and wanted to stay fairly similar to his race for comparison purposes.
(3) 1-imm improves early speed and HP needs speed to survive early years. Perhaps you could drop it, but I worry that you might start to encounter limits due to pop growth as you do not want to invest much in terra and have only 17% growth.

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: IT race for duel (EDog do not read this)
Next Topic: Testing...
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sun Jul 21 02:27:40 EDT 2024