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icon4.gif  WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 16:45 Go to next message
Mosser is currently offline Mosser

 
Crewman 1st Class

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Registered: February 2003
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I'm not saying that WM is for everyone; in fact I've been in some games as WM and got my pants handed to me in a paper bag. However, if played well, and by well I mean aggressive both in playing style and in how you handle the politics of the game, I think that WM is almost impossible to beat.
Mosser Razz

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SinicalIdealist is currently offline SinicalIdealist

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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Mosser wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 13:45

I'm not saying that WM is for everyone; in fact I've been in some games as WM and got my pants handed to me in a paper bag. However, if played well, and by well I mean aggressive both in playing style and in how you handle the politics of the game, I think that WM is almost impossible to beat.
Mosser Razz



Unless the WMs opponents are not doing their jobs properly, there's no way this should happen in a sufficiently balanced game. Even if a WM does manage to fight its way to 1st place, taking out half the universe, by the 60s or so, the WM is going to be at a serious tactical disadvantage when it comes to mine layers and defenses. Sure you can trade for mine layers, but you'll rarely get enough to protect you. Also, minerals are always going to be a little tight, but mostly you'll have problems w/ mobility. Those big DNs that you've waited so long to build, they're great massively powerful warships, but overgating doesn't do nice things to them. A race w/ a more mobile fleet will make minced meat of even the largest behemoths of WM. Also, those tech 5 defenses are easy fodder for anyone's packets. Good luck holding onto those tactically essential beacheads on the frontier. Then, there are the lack of mine fields. Even if you manage to trade for a few, you won't be able to flood your space with enough layers to really slow anyone hell-bent on destroying you. The quickest way to stop a WM, is to simply start attacking it. Chances are, the WM will lose far more resources before any opponent will simply due to it's massive inability to defend anything.



g.e.
====

"When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked
in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star.
(I clocked it once, and the reception is best between 3:00 A.M. and 4:45
A.M.). Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say,
where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer."
-P. K. Dick

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mosser is currently offline Mosser

 
Crewman 1st Class

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This is true, that no matter how good some one is at managing their race there is someone else out there who can beat them...However, this is where being aggressive politically comes in to the picture. I've seen some good players back down or even submit completely to a tactful yet aggressive player of the mind game.

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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I think that someone who is "aggressive politically" will do well with any decent race, WM or not. Laughing

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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Mosser wrote on Tue, 23 August 2005 12:07

This is true, that no matter how good some one is at managing their race there is someone else out there who can beat them...However, this is where being aggressive politically comes in to the picture. I've seen some good players back down or even submit completely to a tactful yet aggressive player of the mind game.


IMHO if you are capable of pulling this sort of diplomatic magic it really doesn't matter much what PRT you are using. Cool

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mosser is currently offline Mosser

 
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IMHO if you are capable of pulling this sort of diplomatic magic it really doesn't matter much what PRT you are using.


> This is true...It dosen't really matter what PRT you are, but I still think it's more fun as a WM just cause you really don't have any friends in the game. Only people who want to backstab.

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 22 August 2005 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
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Mosser wrote on Mon, 22 August 2005 22:37

IMHO if you are capable of pulling this sort of diplomatic magic it really doesn't matter much what PRT you are using.


> This is true...It dosen't really matter what PRT you are, but I still think it's more fun as a WM just cause you really don't have any friends in the game. Only people who want to backstab.




I don't understand why you say this. WMs may have friends just like any other PRT - in fact the depend on friends more because they have more weaknesses that they'll want an ally to cover. The PRT and description may carry the connotation of a non-diplomatic at-war-with-everybody type race, but there is no reason I can think of why that should be in practice.

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Mon, 29 August 2005 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

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I played in one game (Rabid Weasels in a Box) with an aggressive WM, they were in first place for a long time. VCs were top score at 2500, and they were in first place from 2440 (all years approximate, it's been a while now) through 2490. I moved from 5th to 1st from 2480 to 2500, and won (with an IS). The WM and I never fought, we'd agreed on a NAP that lasted through 2495, and by that point it was basicly over. I'm pretty sure he didn't realize I was so close to 1st when we made the NAP, although I think he was starting to get concerned, I was able to make much faster progress through my enemies' space then he was through his enemies' space (probably more of a factor of the enemies' skill then ours, I think it was the first or second game for my enemies', his enemies were both good players).

At one point in the game, I felt it was up to me to decide which of two other races would win, one was the WM, and the other was a race that hadn't fought much (or at all). I picked the WM, because I felt he'd worked harder for the victory, and attaked the other race.



- LEit

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sat, 12 November 2005 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
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Location: A Rock
Argh! I was close in that game Sneaky It was fun none the less. Perhaps I should raise Cancer from the grave and have a try at another game. Though it'll probably need to wait until I graduate.

I started this race out as a "I kill all" type of race, it's fun to play. I did settle down a bit and didn't attack EVERYTHING on sight, agreements, when reached, were generally very limited and strict. My biggest problem in the game is that I received basically little to no aid in technology where everyone else was sharing like crazy. This was my biggest obstacle, I stayed competative with the No 1 economy. I did have a battle thrawl^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hally for a brief period early on in the game that did supply a few mine layers.

When I chose to attack the other guy rather than you, I believe he was 2nd or 3rd place so the descision made sence on my end. Had I gone after you the outcome would have likely have been different, but I probably still would have come up short at the end. Besides, Hetzer was fun to trash talk with.. heh.

If I remember right, there were more green worlds in his space, so this also influenced my decision.


[Updated on: Sat, 12 November 2005 10:55]

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sat, 12 November 2005 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

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You WERE the number 1 economy for most of the game...

Cancer is a very nasty race, probably well geared for a 100 turn limit like RWIAB, after that minerals would become a problem - although getting the Alien Miner helped that quite a bit in this game.

Hetzer's race was 2nd when you attacked. And as you said, he had more greens for you. I think you were both rad immune, so all the terraforming he did helped you as well. I know he was drooling over your space as well. Also my ally was in a stronger position then Hetzer's ally.



- LEit

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sun, 13 November 2005 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
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Yes, I was the No. 1 economy, that's what I ment.. I was able to keep up tech wise because I had the best economy. Cool

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sun, 25 June 2006 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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Can you post the design for Cancer?

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sat, 01 July 2006 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
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PRT - WM
LRT - IFE, RS, CE, NAS
about one in four hab with rad immune 19% growth
5/25/5 factories no G box (-F econ)
10/3/8 mines
Weapons and Construction cheap, Prop and Energy normal, rest expensive.

It was largely based off the Mongols already posted much earlier. I went away from ISB in favor of the points granted, and choose rad immune for the better initial greens.

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sat, 01 July 2006 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

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Just because I want to chime in:
The race that won RWIAB was:
PRT - IS
LRT - IFE, RS, ISB, OBRM, NAS
(Cancer didn't have OBRM?)
20% 1in3 wide hab
1/1000 5/25/5 11/3/15
en, we, con cheap; prop normal; el, bio expensive

IFE/ISB is a great combo for fast early starts, however no immunity hurt that a lot, the worlds I found at the start were very poor. I'd probably skip IFE or ISB in a redesign.

20% growth on an IS is very nice.

My race was designed to be a bit slower, but bigger later, wide hab helped the bigger later, as did the better mines and 20% growth (at the end of the game I had 300% pop everywhere).

For the beginning and middle part of the game my race was at the middle of the pack (and Cancer was #1 from fairly early on till I passed him in the 2490s), It wasn't till very late that I was able to get 200% pop on most worlds that I was able to catch up.

Cancer was clearly designed to be a fast starter, and did that very well.



- LEit

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Re: WM the unbeatable race? Sat, 01 July 2006 19:12 Go to previous message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
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Yes, OBRM too. Sorry Smile

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