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HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 12:52 Go to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005
Hello everybody. I'm a novice and I came up with the following race design - I was hoping someone could critique it. While I'm playing HE in a game, I'm not using this race - it is simply off the top of my head:

HE
TT, ISB, OBRM
Gravity: Immune
Temperature: -120C - 120C
Radiation: Immune
7% (14%) "Virtually all"
1/2500
14/7/23/3G
12/3/18
W,C,B cheap
En,P,El expensive
7 points, surface minerals

I chose Temperature non-immune instead of Radiation because it is more centered and thus gives more planets. It is intended that at some point I hammer on the Bio research to get good terraforming potential - at the end 60% of all worlds are 100%.

Pointers and critiques are more than welcome.


[Updated on: Mon, 20 June 2005 12:53]

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Re: HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Your current design doesn't excell in any period of the game. Early you have pop, but no resources (HP eff.), later you need to invest heavily in (mostly useless) bio to get a half of your planets to 100%, and you still don't get mineral advantage other HE's usually have.

If you'd lower PGR just by 1%, you could take 3-immune, where ALL planets would be 100%, no bio research would be needed (bio expensive and no TT), the ramp-up speed would be about the same, and you could afford mine eff 15, thus giving you a bit more edge against other PRTs.
BR, Iztok

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Re: HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005
Thanks for the quick response. I had been under the impression that 2i HEs were preferred nowadays to the 3i variety. If there is any, what would be a good way of making a 2i HE?

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Re: HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
crr65536 wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 20:30

If there is any, what would be a good way of making a 2i HE?


Asimov was quite successful with his various Roaches designs. These were 2 immune and mineral efficent.

Example:
> HE (The Roaches)
> is, nrse, obrm, nas
> 2i (i usually take grav and temp immune)
> 16 from each edge on the other hab variable
> 6% growth
> 1/1000 15/7/18/g 16/3/23
> 3.5 cheap, usually energy, wep and con cheap, prop or elect normal

This HE is certainly more playable than yours ...but Google for more if you dont like it. Wink

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Re: HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005
Thanks for the advice.

With regards to the Roaches, would it be a good idea to take Energy normal and use the points to drop NRSE? NRSE is quite popular, but it seems to me that ramscoops would make it easier to get around without gates, and would also be useful for cloaked MMs operating for extanded periods of time in enemy territory.

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Re: HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
You can tinker that race how you want... its just a right direction. Asimov published it and he was expert with various sorts of his Roaches.

Usually i have seen NRSE with HE. Nod HE is no SS or SD; it is limited to warfront-style fighting. When all planets have dock at least HE needs no fuel efficiency there. Main advantage of scoops is their weight (light to gate) and HE dont have gates? Rolling Eyes Cloaked MM-s ... HE dont fly much over warp 6 inside enemy minefields. Good idea to merge some plain mini-colony ships to them to check orbitals and ship designs. These will scoop too if needed. Sure its all matter of taste.

If anything then i myself would get rid of NAS instead of NRSE there and probably take RS. Wink

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Re: HP 2i HE Mon, 20 June 2005 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005
I see what you're saying about ramscoops - especially since movement would be better without them because of the earlier IS-10. However, I don't see what is so wrong with being "SS or SD" with the MMs - while they can't do what they'd do as effectively as the other PRTs, it seems that they could cause quite a few problems, like sneaking up on enemy mining operations or laying minefields to disrupt freighter lines. What would you use MMs for then?

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Re: HP 2i HE Tue, 21 June 2005 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
crr65536 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2005 03:50

However, I don't see what is so wrong with being "SS or SD" with the MMs - while they can't do what they'd do as effectively as the other PRTs, it seems that they could cause quite a few problems, like sneaking up on enemy mining operations or laying minefields to disrupt freighter lines. What would you use MMs for then?


For same thing as you say but not in so dramatic mastabes. Wink

HE is no SS (whatever he thinks). Laughing This ship is bit too expensive compared to quite little annoyance it causes in deep enemy territory. Think ... what year it can be built? 50 ... or so. It is midgame ship unlike SS who got 75% cloak at turn 0 or SD who can have minefield at turn 1. There is not so lot of cargo hauling going on anymore, minefields are thick, scanner coverage is OK and freighters can just go around such little field until handful of destroyers sweeps them away. Besides, HE got safe warp 4 inside enemy fields unlike SS or SD, so it does not run out of fuel even with daddy legs 7 too quick.

It is nice to have such ships around to make skirmishing, sweeping and border attack operations smoother, to block enemy retreat ... etc. There unexpected handful of little minefields may change something but there it may get fuel from nearby docks if needed so why scoops? Rolling Eyes In deep opponent territory a Dolphin scanner on fuelless ship is lot better thing to have than Mine dispenser 50 on blind ship with fuel. Nod

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Re: HP 2i HE Tue, 21 June 2005 07:10 Go to previous message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
iztok wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 18:25

Hi!
If you'd lower PGR just by 1%, you could take 3-immune, where ALL planets would be 100%, no bio research would be needed (bio expensive and no TT), the ramp-up speed would be about the same, and you could afford mine eff 15, thus giving you a bit more edge against other PRTs.
BR, Iztok


I think the benefit of the 2i is that it is quicker early on.
(i.e. more pop. This would be more of a benefit with a 1/1000 pop setting, but that's a different topic.)
Put simply, only colonise planets with a hab of 85% and better.
This might sound like a restriction but for your hab scheme it is still better than 1 in 4 and so is not a problem early on.

You don't even need to do the terra on these planets until later.
Terraforming will have more effect on the planets in the 41% - 75% range and you can colonise and terraform those after you've established your empire with the bigger planets first.

The main problem will be diplomacy.
Normally a low-growth HE can offer all the central planets to other players. With this scheme you want all the central temp planets yourself. This makes it slightly harder for you to buy allies.

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