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4500k by 2450

nothing special, but better than an AR race i once made..

on another note, i accidently de-popped my HW when i did a 10gen skip because i had too many spore clout freighters RAPEING it lol!.. oops

race peramiters :-

HE ( duh.. )
IS NRSE OBRM RS
grav max wide
temp centered -164 to 164
rad immune
7% ( 14% )
1/700
-f facts
10/5/25 mines
nrg const weap cheap
elec prop normal
bio exp

points left 62
to surface minerals

[Updated on: Mon, 27 January 2003 19:47]

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Hetzer wrote on Fri, 31 January 2003 18:19

Why take IFE when you can make speed 6 ramscoop freighters by: minicol hull/cargo pod x 3 minicol hull/fuel tank x 6 (or any variation in a 1/2 ratio) This will give you a cargo ship that can go warp 9 for 3 turns loaded.

Sotek wrote on Fri, 31 January 2003 20:33

And why, by the gods, are you taking 10/3/18 mines? Even an HG doesn't go past 10/3/15, oftimes. And a -f will /never/ use all those minerals unless they're throwing fifty gazillion packets. You can easily improve your tech or growth (because that 10%-20% is not going to help once your worlds are hitting 25% cap, and it only gives you as many people as everyone else's planets would at 10% growth.) Drop to 10/3/12 mines at /most/, spend that on growth or tech, you'll be better off, and you'll still have too many minerals. Heck, I've played 10/4/7 mine races, and /still/ get too many mins.

I can't speak from experience (having never played a -f HE and having no inclination to) but it looks to me like freakyboy is talking about a playable race and you two are talking about a max testbed race.

Personally I don't think there's any such thing as too many minerals, even with my 25/2/25 mine HE race where the minerals quickly amass in the tens of thousands.

As for IFE, well, I've noticed it's a cast-iron b_tch trying to fit the settlers delight engine onto warships, or weapons onto the mini-colonizer. The fuel mizer ramscoop at P2 can fulfill all your propulsion needs better than any other engine for a long time without propulsion research. And as for the mini-colonizer hull, some HE's would rather keep their prt a secret.

There's my two cents worth. Coming from me, you better hope you're not getting ripped off.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 February 2003 03:59]

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I like using SD engines on freight/colonizing ships. It can even be used as a fuel booster for scouts (place a pod on them) or other ships, being tech zero equipment it can be a very cheap fuel carrier. Also, the Fuel Mizer is not what I call a combat engine, I usually prefer getting a DD7 before building commbat ships (in most circumstances). Has anyone tried a QS hyper expansionist? I think that perhaps the low growth versions are probably the best for HE.

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timmy wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 08:42

ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 00:41 freakyboy wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 14:31 The only race that can for 1/2 the planets with a 20% growth rate out breed the 10% HE is a JOAT. And a JOAT can out breed anything (bar AR who don't really count). JOAT can outbreed a HE 10 % yes but not a HE 20% (40 % ) ccmaster You're forgetting the 25% growth cap and HE's 1/2 size worlds. An HE hits the cap at 125k pop. This means the *max* pop it can grow a turn, with 20(40)% growth, is 56k. An OBRM Joat, on the other hand, has 330k pop at 25% cap (all these numbers assuming a 100% value). That yields 66k pop growth a year w/ 20%, and 63k with the more common 19%. So the OBRM Joat outbreeds the HE. Also keep in mind that the 40% HE will hit pop caps too fast for you to effectively manage pop, which means that your net pop growth will be poor. That's why the race points are better spent elsewhere. Regards, Tim

You make one mistake .
In a normal game ( witout BBS ) the HE ( 40 % ) have in year 2406 170k+ grow 56k a year the Joat only 74k on his HW . The Joat needs unitll year 2414 then he have 320k and a grow of 64 k.
So if the HE has Planet around him and send his kolonists away in the time 2406 - 14 lets say only 2 Planets 50 % he wills grow in year with about 112k . This is a "week " example normaly a He have more hen 2 50 % Planets around . Max grow would be if 100% Planets in year 2414 235k . So no Race can beat the grow of a HE ( 40 % ) .
But sure noone plays a 40 % He

ccmaster

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[quote title=ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 03:28][quote title=timmy wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 08:42]

ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 00:41

You make one mistake . In a normal game ( witout BBS ) the HE ( 40 % ) have in year 2406 170k+ grow 56k a year the Joat only 74k on his HW . The Joat needs unitll year 2414 then he have 320k and a grow of 64 k. So if the HE has Planet around him and send his kolonists away in the time 2406 - 14 lets say only 2 Planets 50 % he wills grow in year with about 112k . This is a "week " example normaly a He have more hen 2 50 % Planets around . Max grow would be if 100% Planets in year 2414 235k . So no Race can beat the grow of a HE ( 40 % ) . But sure noone plays a 40 % He ccmaster

You are right that initially, in the first few years of a game, the HE will grow more pop. But my point was that the max pop growth a year achievable is greater for an OBRM Joat than for any other race, including 40% HE. Also, if you want to point to growth attainable in the course of a real game, then I'd expect that an OBRM JoaT would be able to grow more pop by 2410 than your HE (in Acc BBS, which is more common). This because the HE will hit the pop cap too fast and its extremely poor transport ability (low tech, poor freighters) means that it won't be able to ship out the pop fast enough. The JoaT will be able to spread its pop faster, and therefore will grow faster. As the game progresses the JoaT will outbreed the HE more and more. It might take slightly longer to overtake the HE in total pop with Acc BBS off, but it will still happen. All this means the OBRM JoaT breeds better than the 40% HE.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 December 2003 04:15]

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@Timmy

1. You told poor freighters .

With tech 3 Kon you get Minikolonizer with cago pots and minikolonizer and full pot . So you have ships full loaded flying Warp 9 for 3 or mor years and warp 6 without fule use .

2. BBS game

You have as a 40% HE more then 230k kolonists by start . so it is easy to build this ships or research the tech first .

3.

The grow of your 64 k from your Joat HW for example grows with 7,4k (58% Planet) a year the 56 k of the 40 % He will grow with more then 12k (57 % Planet) . So the HE will easy grow you out !

4.

You are rigth that the Joat have the max grow per Planet ( expect AR , never mind ) but the HE will easy grows the Joat out or Popdrop his planets .

ccmaster

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I failed to take into account the fact that the HE will start with 225k in Acc BBS, so you're right about the initial pop advantage, and I guess that this might mean you have better tech to transport pop. I can't be sure about this since I haven't played HE much, outside of a few testbeds. I still tend to think that the JoaT is the better breeder, although it may take longer for that to be apparent ... the Joat can grow more pop per high value breeder world, so once it brings them online it will begin to overtake the HE ... I think. Also a JoaT can eventually fit almost three times as much pop into a given number of worlds (assuming the two races have similar hab, which I think is likely if the HE didn't take points from growth rate).

Regards,
Tim

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@ LEit

We talking about a gamestart . And not about year 25XX with bilins of Kolonists in a Breeder Fleet

@ Timmy

Joat is not the better Breeder , but can hold much more Kolonists then a HE can , of course . But no other Rase have suche a quick start then the 40% HE have . Sure you will soon reach max of expand ( neighbours , end of the Galaxie )
so you get a problem with your CAP 25 / 33 % .
But if you want i can show it to you Tiny univers / Packed /BBS
you build a 20% - f Joat and i will take the same Habs and play a HE 40 %

And you will soon see that you will have only have your homworld left rest get Pop dropt by the HE .

ccmaster

[Updated on: Sat, 20 December 2003 20:22]

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ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 20:55

@ But if you want i can show it to you Tiny univers / Packed /BBS you build a 20% - f Joat i will take the same race change PRT . And you will soon see that you will have only have your homworld left rest get Pop dropt by the HE . ccmaster

As I said, you may be right that the HE has the initial pop advantage in the early years. So he'll outgrow the JoaT at first ... but the JoaT will be able to manage his pop better, and grow more pop at each breeder world. I still think you'll have a hard time shipping the pop out early to maintain your high growth ... but I'm not going to bet a game on that, since like I said i have very little experience with HE and am somewhat of a newb The JoaT can grow 60k+ at a good breeder world, vs. 50k (if my numbers are right) for the HE ... and it's easier for the JoaT to keep his breeder worlds trimmed than it is for the HE.

Regards,
Tim

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