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Re: Wammalammadingdong Mod Mon, 21 March 2005 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1180
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
PricklyPear wrote on Mon, 21 March 2005 14:27

As a side note, I should mention that I forgot to change the CoH default ship. In the next revision, the starter CoH will only have 1 OA module.

You do hate CA, don't you? Wink

I did a testbed with the new CA. Just to note you, I couldn't find terra in items that can be build on CA planets.

Testbed race was fairly standard HG monster from hell:
CA
IFE, TT , OBRM, NAS, NRSE,
all three centered, 31 clicks from edges (1 in 14), 19%
1/1000
fac's: 12/9/16/3
mines: 10/3/17
weap and bio cheap, rest expensive and start@3.

With such a race I usualy hit 60+k at 2450 in tiny packed, but in your mod it had problem to hit 25k. Actually, I got 21k, 25 planets settled (not even all yelows - farthest 4 @ TT-15 and a 6% green remained unsettled), 56 OAs produced, hit TT-20 in the last turn, tech 3/3/9/8/3/17. There were three obstacles: 30 iron on HW, low germ on most "close" good planets, and not a single breeder (>75%) in the whole universe. I got "lucky" that the second best planet (45% at start) was prety close to HW, so in about 10 turns and with TT-10 I made it a 92% breeder.

General impression of the testbed: SLOW. It ramped up more slowly as any of my HP designs. No terra means even on developed planets to build Starbase first in order to build Orbital Adjusters, as big mass of them requires at least DLL-7 engine to move them around in reasonable time (you can forget to use FM for that - uses way too much fuel). And still it takes 5 turns for a CoH to pay for itself. That might be acceptable with yellow planets, but on a breeder with 500+ resources I would do regular terra, improve it in 2 turns and start exporting excess pop in 3. But in your mod I had to wait for a long time for the excessively expensive and heavy CoH to be build and to be moved there from the only planet with the starbase - HW. Until that happened race's growth came mostly from factories. Only when there was enough OAs to terra all old colonies (less than 180 LY far) to TT-15, then it began to ramp up with some speed.

I also had problem with moving pop. I had to build much more PVTs for that purpose, and resources for them were taken away from building OAs and researching better tech for moving pop (AD-8 or prop 9 and LF), and that again slowed the ramp-up. Looking back I realized that my PVTs moved to any farther (160+) location with warp 7. That means I'd fare better with taking prop normal and buying prop-5 for the first mover. Would help big time with moving CoHs too.

If I could suggest, I'd propose making Orbital Adjuster the same, as it was before you changed it. It is a problem moving them around, and they could easily become targets for a hostile neighbour. Or have OAs your way and give CA the ability to do normal terraforming. Either way I'm ready to do testing.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Wammalammadingdong Mod Mon, 21 March 2005 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 534
Registered: February 2005
Iztok. Thanks for your testing. I need to do a bit of testing myself (mainly around FM fuel usage and OAs).

I'll check again on the Terraforming, but check the build queue on planets that can be terraformed. I have 'Terraform' as an option (note there is no AutoTerraform for some reason - must have missed this in the build). I don't think it appears on the HW since it is already 100%.

Also, terraform cost is half that of non-CA races. This should have a big impact on your testbed.

Re: OAs, did you try the following design:

MiniMiner + FM + 1 OA + Fuel Tank.

This makes it lighter and extends the range a bit. In fact, this is proabably what I will make the starting ship. The intent of having 1 OA is partly to make it easier to move as well as reducing initial free terraform.

In the mid-game, I would use more advanced scoops to move them around.

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Re: Wammalammadingdong Mod Mon, 21 March 2005 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 534
Registered: February 2005
>You do hate CA, don't you?

Just checked again. Terraforming IS available for CA - just not an autobuild order.

Costs are 50 for normal TF and 35 for TT.

Not sure if half cost is appropriate, but will go with it for now.

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Re: Wammalammadingdong Mod Mon, 21 March 2005 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1180
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
PricklyPear wrote on Mon, 21 March 2005 16:16

I'll check again on the Terraforming, but check the build queue on planets that can be terraformed. I have 'Terraform' as an option (note there is no AutoTerraform for some reason - must have missed this in the build). I don't think it appears on the HW since it is already 100%.

Embarassed I'm sorry. It IS there, among the items on non fully terraformed planets. I don't know how I missed it in all planets' queues I managed. Looks like I can't see if I don't expect to be there. Embarassed again.

Yeah, 35 resources to do terra with TT. Nasty. Who needs OAs with that?! Twisted Evil Will try another testbed and report.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Wammalammadingdong Mod Mon, 21 March 2005 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 534
Registered: February 2005
iztok wrote on Mon, 21 March 2005 16:51

Yeah, 35 resources to do terra with TT. Nasty. Who needs OAs with that?! Twisted Evil Will try another testbed and report.
BR, Iztok



My initial hunch is that it will make CA overpowered. I'm sure your testbedding will bear this out.

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v1.2 RFC Mon, 28 March 2005 09:23 Go to previous message
PricklyPea is currently offline PricklyPea

 
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Messages: 534
Registered: February 2005
Currently working on the next revision of Wamma.

To-do list:

- Reduce germ cost of small/medium freighters to 2 germ
- Remove 75% reduction in jamming effectiveness for SBs (or perhaps make 25% more effective subject to 95% limit)
- Rework FM fuel costs for w7/w8 (240/320?)
- Change CA terraforming costs (can make same as non-CA or perhaps increase cost to balance against OAs?) e.g. doubling costs would mean terra costs 140 (assuming TT LRT)
- Flexidestroyer gains cargo capacity
- Increase mass limits of non-IT gates
- Change CoH ship design (for CA starter ship)

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