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-F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 05:47 Go to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Something occured to me.

For a -F race the 2 most important things are quick transportation of colonists and getting colonisers to outer worlds quickly.

IT is perfect for this.

SO why am I having such difficulty even getting close to what I can with a -F JOAT???

Any tips? -F is the econ model I have trouble with most.

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
I've been doing well with a -f IT roughtly as follows:

20% PGR (a /must/, IMO.)
Temp-immune.
Narrow grav. Really narrow.
Wide rad. Like one click from default.

I find that hab scheme works pretty well.

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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20% is generally a bad idea.

19% is the better cost effective wise.

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
Yes, generally. But for a -f? Your /only/ econ is your people.

And an IT can balance the growth so as not to waste any.
'swhy I say it's worthwhile.

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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for the double cost of upping the growth rate you'd be better off expanding the hab range - least thats what i've found. 20% is only ever used for OWW from my experiance.

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
Double cost, sure, but that's still only what, 100 points?

You can afford a nice hab (especially with the narrow grav. The narrow grav gives you REALLY good planets, because you can start with some pretty good terra, and the value range you get is definitely worthwhile. And it also gives you quite the lot of points.

Don't forget, you're an IT.
You have no need for IFE, and ISB is optional.
You can afford 3.5 tech and that hab as a -f with basically no 'positive' LRTs, and well, you have no need for them, really.

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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I think it would be easier to post the full race spec and details on how to play it effectively. It'd sure help me never mind anyone else. Very Happy

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Re: -F IT Sun, 19 January 2003 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
It would, except I'm using one of my variants of that in a game. Wink

So... no. Wink

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Re: -F IT Mon, 20 January 2003 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stalwart is currently offline Stalwart

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 74
Registered: November 2002
Location: Varies

Greetings All,

Thought I would come out of my dormant fase and give comments on this race econ design.

For one thing IT is very nice for a -f if you know how to use it. One thing to keep in mind is that they start off with Con/Prop 5 regardless of the game, that is DLL7 _AND_ Privateers (don't forget Stargates), so not selecting IFE will not hurt you, nor will selecting NRSE, as your IT stargates can get you from point A to point B regardless of mass.

That in mind you need Weapons and Con Cheap, and with a 20% GR, imune narrow wide hab, you can afford to use it. Also keep in mind that going with a 1000/1 resource income and 20% is a LOT cheaper than a 900/1 -f econ. Don't belive me, check yourself. Though you could drop your GR to 19% and try to go with the nice boosters as IFE and ISB WITHOUT NRSE, or even improve your mine settings, but the idea is to just keep moving. Just remember it is cheaper to keep it simple, as the difference for a 2500/1 and a 1000/1 are the benchmarks for points in the Race wizard, anything less than 1000/1 and between that and 2500 is either to expensive or not worth the points. And when setting up a -f econ it is better to max out to 20% as it makes for earlier expansion and quicker setup of new colonies (really nice when you don't select ISB and getting cheap Orbital Fort Stargates out in one year).

That in mind it is just a matter of taste. If you feel you like the high cost and low return of a 900/1 col efficiency (an improvement of less than 123 resources per maxed out colony) or you like having more cheap tech that is your playing style.

Hope this helps,
Stalwart

Recognition: Thanks to those in the mIRC chat room for advice concerning this PRT and its follow up econ moddle. Special thanks to Sotek for his "Specialty" in -f IT race designs. And no he has a special strategy different from above, or at least a different aproach. Twisted Evil
...




"Attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."- Sun Tzu

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Re: -F IT Mon, 27 January 2003 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apelord is currently offline Apelord

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 99
Registered: November 2002
Trick with a -fac IT (as with all -fac races) is to maximize your pop growth. That's done through a combination of careful micromanagement and paying attention to early hab settings and terraforming potential. Why the emphasis on hab? Hab determines max planet size and thus how many colonists you get out of the world.

Consider:
IT
TT-OBRM-RS
.69 to 1.44g
-136 to 136 temp
16 to 84 rad
19% growth
1/1000 -fac settings
12/3/12 mines
3 cheap, 2 normal, 1 expensive
12pts left over for mins

A race like this can ramp like mad since there will be a number of planets that can be turned green (good green) fast due to the narrow grav feild (which coupled w/high prop starting tech and a little bio gets you +-7% fast) AND the lower cost of TT terraforming. Fast mine ramp, great efficiency and while you can't build a lot of them: YOU DON"T NEED TO. Gate stuff around. Overall the race will produce some rather awesome amounts of minerals. Gate minerals around and you can have tons of worlds kicking out ships at a slow rate, but since you are IT you can gather ships quickly over great distances so this isn't a drawback. With this race you grab everything you can quickly and put gate up into sctors so you can begin exporting colonists via gates.

Another approach can be to temp immune and narrow shifted grav+rad feilds while dropping TT. This is about the same since you forego terraforming of one feild at the expensive of 30% cheaper terraforming. Difference is that with one immune you'll have more good worlds, but fewer overall. Hence one would tend to build larger crash and burn fleets to set worlds up quickly, then gate new crash and burn fleets out to the colonies and send them even farther.

While neither of these approaches is perfect (I just slammed out the top race without testing it much) the important point is approach gets coupled with a play style. Just having a solid race design is not enough in Stars!. A cruddy race can lose you the game, but a great race design by itself wi
...



[Updated on: Mon, 27 January 2003 11:44]




"The object of war is not to die
for your country but to make
the other bastard die for his" -George Patton

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Re: -F IT Mon, 27 January 2003 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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Not one to quibble with you apelord - but I thought the 2 most important things to a -F race were growth rate and hab range?

i.e. lots of planets and plenty growing quick. 1 in 8 planets seems a bit shallow - despite the obvious terraforming advantages.

maybe I'm wrong (likely).

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Re: -F IT Sat, 24 May 2003 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Taubat is currently offline The Taubat

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 263
Registered: December 2002
yeah, youre not wrong, with that you should take NRSE and CE, since you are a IT, and take an immune, 1/8 -f race will go over like a lead balloon, dosnt work, or just not as well, a -f race will almost always have at least one immune, and should.


Royal Sha'a'kar of the Taubat people

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Re: -F IT Tue, 18 November 2003 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cirrus is currently offline Cirrus

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 6
Registered: November 2003
What does -f mean in the first place?

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Re: -F IT Tue, 18 November 2003 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ashlyn is currently offline Ashlyn

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 834
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pueblo CO USA

factoryless Very Happy

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Re: -F IT Tue, 18 November 2003 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

I prefer to think of it as minus factories. Rolling Eyes


"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: -F IT Thu, 27 November 2003 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
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The Taubat wrote on Sat, 24 May 2003 17:55

yeah, youre not wrong, with that you should take NRSE and CE, since you are a IT, and take an immune, 1/8 -f race will go over like a lead balloon, dosnt work, or just not as well, a -f race will almost always have at least one immune, and should.


Just wondering, what is reasonable hab for a 1 immune -f IT ?

I can't get better that 1 in 4, no matter what I try in the RW, and to get even that I need to sacrifice ISB.

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Re: -F IT Thu, 27 November 2003 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
I'm running a 1 in 7 temp-immune 20% PGR -F IT with CE, ISB, OBRM, and RS as the LRTs.

Doing quite well; in third, largely because I stalled on building ships to follow through an early attack and got repulsed after taking his HW.

Admittedly the design has quite a few aspects that fit *precisely* and can't be changed, but anywhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 6-7 is probably okay.

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Re: -F IT Fri, 28 November 2003 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1211
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

Just wondering, what is reasonable hab for a 1 immune -f IT ?

I can't get better that 1 in 4, no matter what I try in the RW, and to get even that I need to sacrifice ISB.

With an immunity you can afford a bit lower hab, because your planets will be better. For your race I'd say 1 in 5 would be enough.
BR, Iztok

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Re: -F IT Wed, 17 December 2003 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
alexdstewart is currently offline alexdstewart

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 164
Registered: July 2003
Location: Brisbane, QLD.
You can also pick LSP(LowStartPop), IMOP the extra pt you get more than compensate the 2 turn delay. Rolling Eyes

You can spend those pts on better hab or you can convince yourself that you are really buying higher growth with it. Laughing

I mean no matter how good a player you are, you reach a point when you canna maintain the optimal growth rate, and then you'll find that your 2 turn advantage was lost before you knew it. Laughing



In the Future there is only WAR...
Therefore our extinction is assured, it is just a matter of where and when.

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Re: -F IT Tue, 17 February 2004 04:14 Go to previous message
goober is currently offline goober

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10
-f IT rocks!

Seems my favoured design flouts the majority of the suggestions given in this thread. But the basic premise that you can shift pop (and mins and vessels ofc) where you want it kicks ass.

Goober.

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