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Home » Primary Racial Traits » PP » Using packet scanners / giving away PRT
Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Mon, 22 November 2004 10:16 Go to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
I've not seen much on this matter.
One person has said to try and keep your PRT hidden by using normal scouting early on.

So I thought I'd ask for opinions.

Because PP packet scanning is a massive early benefit in terms of finding breeders / close neighbours etc. (and early movement is often not the best for a PP since they can't afford IFE and start at prop 0) then :-

Do people recommend using the packet scouting at the start of a game ?
Does it depend on the number of players or universe size ?
Would you do it just from the secondary, or maybe just from the HW as some kind of double bluff ?

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Tue, 23 November 2004 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
mazda wrote on Mon, 22 November 2004 16:16

I've not seen much on this matter.
One person has said to try and keep your PRT hidden by using normal scouting early on.

So I thought I'd ask for opinions.

If I'd want to hide my PRT and in a non-crowded uni, I'd use 2-3 packets from HW at the start to scan nearby planets. Packets should hit at least in the second turn, so there would be less chance someone would spot them. On the secondary planet I'd not use packets until I find out where my neighbours are, then I'd throw some in other direction(s). PP starts with 2 long-range scouts, so even a standard scouting shouldn't be a problem for them.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Tue, 23 November 2004 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
iztok wrote on Tue, 23 November 2004 08:50

On the secondary planet I'd not use packets until I find out where my neighbours are, then I'd throw some in other direction(s).

That's so you don't hit their planets and upset them, rather than they don't see the packet, right ?
With NAS, elec expensive and Start at 3 common, a lot of players can see 300 l.y.

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Tue, 23 November 2004 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
I have met very few PPs ... I can think of only two ... one in a teamgame (4 teams of 3) and one in a med size game, solo victory only. That last one was played by vonKreedon, and he masked his PRT until later in the game. I think he didn't use packets for early scanning, or I missed them which seems unlikely since I started close to his HW ...

So suddenly he started throwing small packets around at high speeds, can't remember the exact year ... later than 2460 i think ... Anyway we had an NAP (friendly, but not _that_ friendly since only one could win, he always kept me at a distance, if you read some posts from him about solo victory games and large alliances you'll understand) and my reaction was to build defenses and massdrivers at the border planets and LF fleets to lift up pop.
Showing his PPness made me spend/waste some resources and minerals into maybe "unnecessary" stuff, but nothing more than that. 1-2 turns after I saw he was PP I was prepared for a packet attack, and his PRT was "useless". He would have needed the regular warfare like any other regular race to get to me ...

Just to say that I don't see why in that case the player masked his PRT ... maybe for not looking like a target early in game? It was of no use for him later in the game, unless he had attacked me or somebody else with a full spread packet attack (before showing his PRT), with of course fleets and pop to back it up and take the dead planets ...

mch

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Tue, 23 November 2004 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
I've played games where I hid my PRT. It's just not my style, I'll use every advantage possible that is available to me. If I had the minerals to do it, I'd probably scount using packets from both worlds from year one. Of course, universe settings might dictate otherwise, but generally, maximize any potential benifit your PRT gives you. The skillful diplomat should be able to neutralize any irrational paranoia, likely some races might seek 'friendly' terms if they don't like PP.

Anyway, that's my take on that.

BackBlast

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Tue, 23 November 2004 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v-Skippy is currently offline v-Skippy

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 12
Registered: February 2004
Location: Seattle
Hiding the PRT in this case can provide you with one devastating attack (i.e. your attack fleets move in with your packet attack with freighters full of pop following up). If done right you can claim all the border worlds (with facs and mines) and have them up to speed in a couple turns. Your opponent then has to waste time and resources to negate (or at least minimize) the packet threat while your attack fleet moves the border farther back. Once all this stabilizes everyone will be aware of your PRT and have taken steps to protect themselves so the brief moment of glory shouldn't happen again.

I guess my point is...if you hide your PRT make sure you get full value when you unveil it (i.e. carve yourself out a big chunk o' space) as it will be a one time opportunity. As opposed to using it openly all along where you won't get the one big bonus but you will get constant bonus.

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Wed, 24 November 2004 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003
v-Skippy wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 02:10

Hiding the PRT in this case can provide you with one devastating attack (i.e. your attack fleets move in with your packet attack with freighters full of pop following up). If done right you can claim all the border worlds (with facs and mines) and have them up to speed in a couple turns.


And what keeps other PRTs from doind the same, except that they cannot attack as many planet, because of lower speed(=higher min cost and shorter range)?

Carn

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Wed, 24 November 2004 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v-Skippy is currently offline v-Skippy

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 12
Registered: February 2004
Location: Seattle
Of course any PRT can do it, but with the higher speed drivers a PP can reach much further without allowing the defender any response time (1 turn strike or a two turn strike where you kill off any freighters first). The W10 driver (available to any PRT) is a cost burden while the W8 or W9 drivers are relatively cheap and available at lower Energy levels.

That said....nothing here that is a huge advantage.

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Thu, 25 November 2004 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SnakeChomp is currently offline SnakeChomp

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 61
Registered: April 2003
Location: Stamford, CT

Sure, throwing packets really fast is not a huge advantage on its own. What all of you are neglecting is that the most common defense against a packet attack is lots of large freighters. Thats what suicide missle ships with "kill freighter" orders are for. You never only attack with packets. You must follow up with a standard fleet, and the fact that most people will simply offload all their pop into a horribly undefended position is a prime opportunity for you to create lots of little space coffins.

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Thu, 25 November 2004 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Actually showing out that you are PP seems better than hiding the fact on most cases.

People tend to avoid intersettling with you with brute force.

They do not view you as too weak early since you got excellent (about joatly) initial scouting and two starting colonies.

They know you got weakest PRT in a game so you probably want to have some fun on one hand and are agreeable about not being the winner on other hand. They avoid pushing themself up int that list of funmaking targets.

They do not see you as a serious long term threat unless its tight tiny game and so will look elsewhere for competition.

So what i wanted to say i vote for packet scanning. Very Happy

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Re: Using packet scanners / giving away PRT Mon, 06 December 2004 16:52 Go to previous message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
My reason for masking my PRT in the game Micha talks about is that I thought that my neighbors would tend to target me early if they knew I was PP. My race was designed for the long term and so would have been vulnerable early and I did not want to take the chance that neighbors would attack me when they found out I was PP.

I also think that I had a better chance than Micha does at taking out Micha in the end game. I had LOTS of minerals, I had a fleet specifically counter-designed for Micha, I had a good target . But, I did not have the allies that I needed because Micha's allies would not turn on him Sad So I never got to test my plan.

[on edit]
Oh, and one of the players in that game spotted me for a PP almost immediately because he saw that I had two worlds and noted that the icon for the default scout is different for IT and PP.


[Updated on: Mon, 06 December 2004 16:54]

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