[Updated on: Wed, 25 August 2004 11:26]

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[Updated on: Wed, 25 August 2004 15:57]

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Ettane wrote on Wed, 25 August 2004 10:24

If you pick an HE in an any-prt-goes game, you should be strapped into the "you-don't-get-to-play-anymore" slapping machine. Unless of course you are trying to completely humiliate someone by beating them with an HE. : ) : D

That's a pretty broad statement. Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean someone else can't. Remindes me of the "Best Nubian" posts.

-Matt

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I don't want to get into a prt war here - is there a forum here setup to handle that sort of discussion?

mlaub wrote on Wed, 25 August 2004 13:33

That's a pretty broad statement. Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean someone else can't.

<trash talk>
PS: Yes it does.
</trash talk>

: D

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Ettane wrote on Wed, 25 August 2004 15:37

I don't want to get into a prt war here - is there a forum here setup to handle that sort of discussion? <trash talk> PS: Yes it does. </trash talk>

I'm not interested in discussing it, period. I'm tired of all the disbelief and disdain that most players have toward HE. You can read my posts on HE's in both forums. Trials, tribulations, and victories. I've won 3 of 4 advanced multiplayer games with the HE PRT, no military allies in any of those games...That's more victories than most players have total under their belt. So, you are either wrong, I'm very lucky, or your insulting the heck out of the 30 odd players that lost. Pick one.

-Matt

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mlaub wrote on Wed, 25 August 2004 13:51

So, you are either wrong, I'm very lucky, or your insulting the heck out of the 30 odd players that lost. Pick one.

d) all of the above?

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Ettane wrote on Wed, 25 August 2004 17:24

multilis wrote on Wed, 25 August 2004 08:07 Similar can be said about most other PRTs, each has a use... even HE I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to find an HE that can't be better replaced by an IS, IT, or better still, a CA (and I've played a LOT of different HE's). I used to love HE's. Now, I can't stand them - virtually no redeeming features. The meta-morph hull is a pathetic, weak excuse to use an HE, and resource-wise, it doesn't hold a candle to a decent CA, IS, or IT. If you pick an HE in an any-prt-goes game, you should be strapped into the "you-don't-get-to-play-anymore" slapping machine. Unless of course you are trying to completely humiliate someone by beating them with an HE. : ) : D

Hi ,

maybe i can help you Ettane we can go for a Duell and i play a HE you a CA , IS , IT or something else and then we will look if you can handle this

ccmaster

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CC's HE is very powerful and frightening on the score board, but I've now seen its weaknesses...

For what it's worth, I don't think HEs are remotely broken. I just think they have universes where they thrive. Larger universes generally aren't among them (w/out an ally to provide gates).

I've played 8, 14, 18, 26, 36 and 38% HEs on various occasions. All depended on factories to some extent. The 26% and 14% were most balanced. The only ones that I actually tried fielding in a game were the 8%, 36%, and 38% in a small/packed blitz. The 4% was passable, but vs CA, a pretty dumb choice. It had little ability to hold up in a prolonged pop-drop war. The 2 highest growth races worked best. The 36% was easier, since the 38% grew too fast to come close to managing effectively. Design was basically a modified wide hab HG. Grew like wildfire and hit 5k by 20, 13k by 30, 30k by 50.

..yes, it burns out VERY fast...but chances are, in blitz conditions no one comes close. At the same time, the race is so taxing on one's sanity, that i would never recommend playing it.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 June 2005 13:53]

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SinicalIdealist wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 12:50

For what it's worth, I don't think HEs are remotely broken. I just think they have universes where they thrive. Larger universes generally aren't among them (w/out an ally to provide gates).

Not necessarily...The slower growth are more very much like AR's. If it's a good design, and they are left alone for a while, they are quite competitive. They are a tasty target for QS and -f expansion, though. I have made it work in the large games. However, the MM involved in pop/min and fleet managing a >200K empire is wearing. Sometimes it would take almost 1/2 hour.

Actually in Galaxy 216 (Huge/Packed) I was playing a 4% HE. I had ~190 planets and ~220K at the end of the game. I was fighting 4 or 5 races at the end, and had a couple of friendly races, but no allies. I remember a few turns taking upwards of 1.5 hours. Having IT's for enemies, and a >1400ly border, made things very difficult.

-Matt

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Only a 1/2 hour for 215k resources? Damn, I can turn an empire w/ 10k into 2 hours...

How do you manage to balance minerals, pop, organize fleets, and manipulate your neighbors?

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SinicalIdealist wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 14:53

Only a 1/2 hour for 215k resources? Damn, I can turn an empire w/ 10k into 2 hours... How do you manage to balance minerals, pop, organize fleets, and manipulate your neighbors?

Lots of automation and scoops. Mineral balance isn't to bad, once you get used to automating it. In that game I had ~250 lg freighters that were on multi turn and repeat orders. I try grouping planets with offsetting mineral conc and set out small groups of lg freighters to just go back and forth evening those mins out. Sometimes that isn't possible, so I just hand order the ships, but I try to put in at least 6 years worth of orders in if that is the case (quick calculations). There have been times that I have goofed, and double or tripled up a min on a planet, but not often.

As far as pop goes, that is really easy. I keep breeders at 25% with auto load and drop orders till the target reaches breeder status. If I can equalize mins with the same freighter, I do. I'll micromanage till about Y65 with a 4% to maximize pop, but after that it really doesn't matter. Anyway, with automation, it only takes a few minutes.

In the later part of the game, I use min poor planets or border planets to provide the bulk pop in the late game, and just let them grow to about lg freighter + 137,500 pop. Then I take off lg freighter full. Sure, I could eek out a little more pop if I took off a little each year, but by that time you can't because of fleet limits.

Fleets are automatically sent to gathering points. This can be tricky, too, as large HE's always have issues with fleet counts hitting the 512 limit. In the late stages, I may need to shut down production on planets, just to do chaff sweeps.

Minelayers have scoops and are cloaked, and are setup on routes that last at least 8 years (4 way points) till they get to the begining point. Again, limits make it pointless to put out tiny minefields everywhere.

As far as manipulate neighbors, I usually don't bother anymore. Takes to much

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Hi!

mlaub wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 00:00

SinicalIdealist wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 14:53 How do you manage to balance minerals, pop, organize fleets, and manipulate your neighbors? Lots of automation and scoops. Mineral balance isn't to bad, once you get used to automating it. In that game I had ~250 lg freighters that were on multi turn and repeat orders.

I see the point, but I lack the proper tool. Namely, the "set wapoint to:" transfer order, that I intended use to automate transfer of minerals, works only to 4000kT. I'm currently in a game Galactic Awakening (huge packed uni), where we had 100 years of forced gen, and am playing HE. There are only few planets with less than 4000kT of one mineral, much bigger numbers are common. I've automated ship distribution, but that doesn't help much, as I'm quickly approaching 512 fleet limit, when I'll have to manualy split newly built ships and merge arrived fleets. So I do MM, that takes several hours. Only 3 turns after forced gen I can say it was a mistake entering such a big game.

Quote:

It's like anything else, you get used to it, or you don't play in huge games. (Or you go nutz )

Probably the later. I hope I'll recognize the signs and quit before that happens.
BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Wed, 15 June 2005 02:52]

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iztok wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 01:45

I see the point, but I lack the proper tool. Namely, the "set wapoint to:" transfer order, that I intended use to automate transfer of minerals, works only to 4000kT. I'm currently in a game Galactic Awakening (huge packed uni), where we had 100 years of forced gen, and am playing HE.

Yes, a 100yr jump would make alot of mins. Although, after the initial metal leveling in stocks, I doubt it would be difficult to setup automation. 3 lg freigters per group, built with a scoop and 2 super cargo pods. Even 90-100 fleets of these should be more that enough. That leaves plenty for other stuff, like warships.

Quote:

I'm quickly approaching 512 fleet limit, when I'll have to manualy split newly built ships and merge arrived fleets. So I do MM, that takes several hours. Only 3 turns after forced gen I can say it was a mistake entering such a big game.

Yea, for a large jump that is to big of universe. I believe I posted that a medium or large would have been better, depending on the number of players of course. You can still get everyone to max tech with a bigger jump, but tame the MM just a little by universe size.

I'm thinking that a remapped universe would be fun for this type of game.

-Matt

[Mod edit: fixed quote]

[Updated on: Thu, 16 June 2005 06:22] by Moderator

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Hi!

mlaub wrote on Wed, 15 June 2005 16:56

...Although, after the initial metal leveling in stocks, I doubt it would be difficult to setup automation.

I'm amost over initial leveling and it seems you're right. Balancing when there's more than 10k minerals doesn't seem reasonable, esp. with "low" HE resource output from a single planet. I'll probably merge LFs into minelayer fleets I keep on every planet (also in order to get newly produced ships meged into them, instead lost), and start another balancing when it will be needed.

Quote:

Yea, for a large jump that is to big of universe. I believe I posted that a medium or large would have been better...

I also asked to make it a bit smaller, but my proposal was refused without single vote for. I'd say quite some players regret that decision now.
BR, Iztok

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