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AR vulnerability |
Mon, 21 June 2004 11:29 |
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LEit | | Lt. Commander | Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003 Location: CT | |
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Quoted from the Trans private forum, and moved here.
Hyena wrote on Fri, 18 June 2004 23:48 | So what you're saying is that because I chose to play AR, I deserve to be killed?
As for not having any armed ships;
1. In my experience, Stars! players usually do not get homocidal until some sort of argument or dispute takes place.
2. I build a minefield around my core worlds as my first line of defence.
3. I kept up a bit of weapons reseach in case I needed to build warships quickly.
4. Maybe it was stupid for me to assume this, but I figured I wouldn't prove to be enough of a threat (or have enough that an enemy would want) to provoke any sort of attack. I had like 10 planets. What do you want?
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ARs are weak early on, and very strong later on.
So other people have two choices, ally and help, or wipe them out.
Since it is unlikely you will be able to convince all neighbors that you will ally with them, you will probably have to defend yourself early. A minefield that isn't backed by armed ships is fairly useless. Also only 10 planets shows that you have a race that is probably designed to be stronger later on, and weaker earlier. Which means killing you now will be easy, and waiting will be very bad.
In most games, certainly when intermediate players or better are in it, if you look weak, you will likely attract at least one neighbor to attack you, without provocation.
ARs do have some early advantages: No need to build factories, so everything can go into terraforming, research, and ships. You need to use that to put on at least a display of strength, if not actually being aggressive yourself. Also, every base should be armed, so taking a world is as expensive as you can make it, you have cheaper bases, and probably ISB, so arming them is cheap, and early on, pretty effective.
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- LEitReport message to a moderator
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Mon, 21 June 2004 15:39 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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LEit wrote on Mon, 21 June 2004 12:10 |
Also, early on, AR tend to be have very limited minerals, which limits their ability to build a fleet.
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Further, AR's are my preferred "expansion areas" because they can't build a war fleet AND huge mining fleets in the midgame. Therefore, whatever planets they have will usually have the mineral conc intact. This is a boon, as I usually will take a 11-13 eff on my HG's.
I do my best to totally eliminate all AR's, as if the game drags on, the AR always has the advantage. Even if I think I could get a solid alliance, I'd rather kill them. I prefer not to chance it. I'll even go through wormholes to attack and weaken them, if not kill them, just so others will finish them off.
If you don't like that attitude...don't play an AR...
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Mon, 21 June 2004 16:19 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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ForceUser wrote on Mon, 21 June 2004 14:57 |
So be carefull just Whom you attack thinking; AR Must be destroyed. Because you will be destroyed if The AR is a good diplomat.
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The issue, though, is that unless you get others to defend you (right now!), you will die anyway. I have no issue blowing through an AR's territory while being attacked. The times this has happened to me, I have been able to grow faster than the others could kill me. Then, I am in a much better position to deal with the AR allies.
I usually don't attack an AR until I can roll them up quick (10-15 years, multiple attacks). By the time you negotiate for help, you are already dead. That's my experience up till now, and I've done it more than 5 times.
I'm sure I'll get bitten on it sooner or later, but it hasn't happened yet.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Tue, 22 June 2004 10:04 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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ForceUser wrote on Tue, 22 June 2004 01:22 | But my friend, I HAVE been attacked "Blitszcrig" style but He didn't come further than my second world.
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Well, sure sounded like he was clueless. You don't follow cruisers with frigates. That's idiotic. Anyone who knows anything about an AR is going to realize that they will probably have a weap advantage. The best thing to do is wipe out a couple key worlds with the cruisers and follow up with BB's.
Once you breakthrough the limit of what the AR can build (mineral limits), plus SB, you win. Typically, the AR is going to have enough minerals to build really nasty SB's on most planets. So, you need to use a ship hull that can take some punishment. Frigates are basically chaff to a missile armed SB...
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...But still, a destroy all AR Immediately outlook on a game *might* get you more unfriedlys than anything else. Besides, not every AR Will backstab you if you ally with them. I for one will rather ally with an AR than destroy it.
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Ah, well, I'd rather go down in flames doing things my own way, than playing it safe. I like diplomacy just fine, but in the end it *is* a war game.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Tue, 22 June 2004 14:22 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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ForceUser wrote on Tue, 22 June 2004 12:06 | All I'd like to say is that it will definately be an interesting game if we two meet
ForceUser
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We may have already. I have played 3 different people from SA, you may be one of them.
As far as getting into the same game, I won't start one till summer ends. By that time, I may skip stars entirely and try DominationsII. The last 3 Stars games I have played in have been very disappointing. Between the cheaters, droppers, and clueless newbies trying to play 6 levels above their ability, I haven't had to much of a challege.
If you want, we could play a duel. This is something I have only done a couple of times, and I don't consider myself a good dueler... Turns could be sporadic, though.
Let me know
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Fri, 25 June 2004 13:24 |
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Yes, there are some race designs that can get somewhere with only 10 colonies but not AR. AR gets 12K by 2460 with 10 colonies.
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To be fair, should be mentioned that quoted AR was attacked before 2440 rather than 2460. Game is medium, normal but everyone has free Orbital Adjuster ships (that might also count as remote miner equiv of 500 mines). The OA ships in theory should give a boost to AR as early mineral crunch isn't as bad and terraforming turns immediately into extra resources... but the OA ships also give a boost to everyone else including the AR's neighbours.
For Matt looking for a challenge, my first impressions looking at Dominions aren't great. The documention seemed poor, I don't like a game where it is hard to figure out the 'guts' of how things work except vaguely through trial and error. Perhaps a better challenge would be playing some crazy combo like a PP PRT race who completely avoids diplomacy.
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Fri, 25 June 2004 13:40 |
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Kotk | | Commander | Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003 | |
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You completely missed my point. "12k econ by 2460" is most vulgar sentence i would use when describing a races power. Doesnot matter what its PRT is and what year i attack it... it belongs not to the game i am playing in and it deserves no diplomacy.
EDIT: It was probably intentional since you removed the smilies.
[Updated on: Fri, 25 June 2004 14:00] Report message to a moderator
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Re: AR vulnerability |
Fri, 25 June 2004 17:41 |
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If he was not attacked 2435ish he should have had more than 10 planets by 2450-2460.
He was weak with minimal defences apparently giving consessions to appease his neighbours. In turn they saw weaknesses and decided to grab all territory. I'm on the other end of the map so I had only a limited view.
In the end 3 different neighbours shared out his territory.
Just throwing in context of situation for others rather than arguing any case.
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