Fielded Kelarium |
Sat, 17 April 2004 20:27 |
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SlaveOfSeven | | Petty Officer 2nd Class | Messages: 58
Registered: January 2004 Location: England | |
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Is this armour worth using? Generally it seems that until Superlatanium armour isn't recommended, but with its 50 points of shield and relative light weight, is FK armour worth putting on BB's or other hulls?
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Sun, 18 April 2004 00:05 |
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A big question is... are you RS?
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relative light weight
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I think 50kt is heavy.
On a starbase you often want armour to protect against missiles, weight doesn't matter.
For ships, it is often better to look at building more hulls and putting less weapons on each as a way of increasing the armour/weapon ratio.
For example:
A battleship costs 225 resources and yields 2000 armour.
Even if you havent taken RS:
10 x Fielded Kelarium costs 280 resources and yields 1750 armour + 500 shields. (Of course only 6 armours would fit on a Battleship)
So, would you rather have 2 battleships with Kelarium armour or 3 battleships with no armour and a few less weapons?
5 Fielded Kelarium on each battleship adds 250kt weight (but less fuel than 3 battleships). You have less shield slots but are more efficient in using booster elect/mech slots/engines. You have lost gatabillity and a fair bit of last move advantage due to lower weight chance.
And if you took RS which would have boosted your shields, the story is much more against Fielded Kelarium.
IMO, croby is often good, but Fielded Kelarium is usually only for Starbases and rare special situations where you want to alter the attractiveness order of your ships (which get attacked first) or want weight as part of an unusual overcloaking ship.
An example of an unusual overcloaking ship would be a battleship with 6xFielded Kelarium, 8xCroby Sharmour, 7 x Super Stealth Cloak, 20 x Epsilon Torp and ideally heavy engines, giving you 1200kt+ of 93% overcloaking mass that can hide stuff especially in orbit from penn scans and take out chaff fairly well.
A use for such a ship would be to hide some chaff from the enemy to trick him into battling your forces (that aren't over one of your gates, so he thinks he can count them all with penn scans).
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[Updated on: Sun, 18 April 2004 00:24] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Sun, 18 April 2004 03:17 |
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If it was, say, fielded Crombium or something, it's actually be useful (Destroyers, whee!), but it's too high up in the tech tree to be much good.
Perhaps its purpose is to allow you to build shielded DD sweepers (able to take a mine hit) that can hold a minelayer pod in the nose?
[Updated on: Sun, 18 April 2004 03:19] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Wed, 21 April 2004 14:13 |
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LEit | | Lt. Commander | Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003 Location: CT | |
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In general I agree that Fielded Kelarium is fairly useless, I would use it before I would use Neutronium, unless the design has more shields then armor already, but that's unlikely.
Without RS, and against missiles your effective DP for Neutronium is 137.5. Fielded Kelarium is 162.5 (shield+armor(limit to shield)+remaining armor/2). Although misses will damage shields somewhat, so it's probably about even.
Against torps, Neutronium is slightly better, and againt beams, the DP is higher for Neutronium, but for Kelarium you get some shield stacking.
With RS Kelarium is better in all cases.
There are only two places I'll stick armor that heavy, on bases and on missile BBs that can't gate anyway. And even in those cases it's questionable.
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Wed, 21 April 2004 14:52 |
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Orca | | Chief Warrant Officer 1 | Messages: 148
Registered: June 2003 Location: Orbiting tower at the L5 ... | |
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LEit wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 14:13 | There are only two places I'll stick armor that heavy, on bases and on missile BBs that can't gate anyway. And even in those cases it's questionable.
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It's generally worth it to armor your (bases|missile ships) - force protection. Basically the reason why arm cruisers even if they shoot first suck; any hits and they start going poof...taking those missiles with them. It's less important early on, but as the missiles get more expensive it becomes more and more worth your time to armor the ships that carry them. And you generally aren't too worried about gatability or battle speed.
On beamers armor is a much more iffy proposition due to speed, gatability, and move last concerns.
Jesus saves.
Allah forgives.
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Thu, 22 April 2004 09:36 |
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mlaub | | Lieutenant | Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003 Location: MN, USA | |
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Orca wrote on Wed, 21 April 2004 13:52 |
It's generally worth it to armor your (missile ships) - force protection.
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Very true for BB's and some cc designs. In the Fielded Kelarium 'age', it can be a daunting task to burn through all that armor, and shields with the beamers available. The problem is it is such a small window of opportunity in most games that many players fall into the trap of continuing to build these ships well into obsolescence. I'd say if there was a few planets you need/want, sure, build a *small* force and take them. Don't keep building them, though, stop and go for tech again.
Side note on armor in the end game. I see many people do this on Nub missile boats, and I really don't get it. It is much easier and cheaper to make you missile ships less attractive than you beamers by using jammers and shields. All you end up doing by using armor, is burning through you Iron faster than you would have, giving you fewer missiles. IMO, armor DP is always a minor, secondary concern on Nubs. Especially when you can easily design your beamer attrition nubs to take the brunt of any damage that gets past the chaff. Further, if the fighting gets to your missile ships, armor usually won't help as the other side is likely to have many more beamers than you have Nub missile ships.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Thu, 22 April 2004 18:59 |
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I think the game matters in the talk of tech verses ships.
It is much easier to 'go for nubs' in a large game compared to a small.
It is much easier to 'go for nubs' in a game where everyone has waited till battleships to even start thinking about real war (the eccons are in better shape) then a game where players have been aggressive right from the start.
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An alternative to armour on battleships is more battleships with less missiles each. So you might end up with only 12 rather than 16 or 20 missiles per ship. Lots depends on what minerals you are short on, how many jammers are in play, etc.
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Re: Fielded Kelarium /Croby Sharmor & RS |
Mon, 10 May 2004 06:53 |
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With RS, the Croby Sharmor is an excellent component because it's a shield component with armor. Since it's a shield component it doesn't lose the 50% for the added armor property. And, it gets the RS shield bonus. An absolutely wonderful component for early frigates.
The Fielded Kelarium is an armor component with added shield properties. Because it's an armor component, the armor is rated at 50% strength if you have RS.
Ptolemy
[Updated on: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:46]
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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Re: Fielded Kelarium |
Mon, 11 December 2006 07:49 |
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Neo the White | | Master Chief Petty Officer | Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006 | |
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Ok this thread is only about Fielded Kelarium. I save my time and post all my ideas here. pardon if it bothers someone.
I used StarEd nowadays to mod all these gadgets of different races so that for example Croby Sharmor will have 420 DP while Complete Phase Shield has 500 an Shadow Shield has 705
Heh and the Kelariums become Semi-Organic Armor
fileded Kelarium is Semi-Organic Armor FFC (Force Field Covered/whatever) and have 1350 and 1300 DP
while Depleted Neutronium becomes Superlatanium SD having 2000 Dp and normal Superlatanium will have 1700 Dp.
otherwise those gadgets change really nothing in the game play.
I've modded also all the Jammers ending with Jammer 55 of IS. I had it Jammer 75 but that is a bit too super now. but why not. An advanced race with advanced tools to take care of its people - feels like a highly advanced alien race. Give them a mobile Ultra Station(if it only could make ships as well) instead of a vessel just for mating rituals, super shield sapper and that's a race really hard to knock out of the universe.
[Updated on: Mon, 11 December 2006 13:38] Report message to a moderator
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