Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » WM » DN vs Nubian
DN vs Nubian Mon, 06 October 2003 18:55 Go to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

It's old and it's a relatively tired subject but why not post it up on here...

Nubian Vs WM dreadnaught.


Nubian better than DN

More versatile
More Armour (ship hull)
Can mount a decent number of beam deflectors
Gateable
Cheaper

DN better than Nub
2x 8x weapon slot
2x 6x weapon slot
2x 5x weapon slot - i.e. excellent missile platform.
Can mount 38 weapons. Same number of weapons on a nub leaves 1 free 3x slot
Higher base init (fires first in a beamer battle)


The way I figure it is as such....

If you want high stacks of armour and sheilding - the DN is king
If you want sheer firepower DN is still king (38 beam weapons + 8x capacitors = big bang)
If you want a missile platform - DN is king.

But not all battles are about firepower or damage absorbtion. The nubian is gateable and most of all you can REDUCE the enemy's ability to hurt you: less sheilds and/or armour, but it's not as required.

A Nubian will more than likely cost alot less too (a 10 decrease in incoming damage costs 2 resources at max tech - you do the math on the sheilds vs beam deflector ratio for best performance) than a DN.

But there's the phsychological effect of 1000 DN's heading for you. 1000 nubians is bad.... but 1000 DN's is scary.

As a slight note... 1000 DN's with a full payload of missiles can take out 38,000 chaff with the first volley - that's basically all the chaff in a fleet unless you bring alot of fleets/designs of chaff.

Personally I'd design unattractive DN's and use them as a missile platform (artillery if you will) and then build chaff and nubs to sap up the enemy firepower (a max tech DN loaded with a galaxy scoop, armageddon missiles, 2x jammer 30's and 8 sheilds costs 1104 resources) - downside is it costs about 2000kt of Ironium and it's so heavy you can forget stargating.


What do you guys think?

If you don't rate the DN at all as a missile platform thanks to it's lack of gatability - then what would you use for a missile platform?

For a gateable missile platform i l
...



[Updated on: Mon, 06 October 2003 18:59]

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 07 October 2003 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
I'd use a nubian.

Four to six BDs, one or two jammers, one or two comps, one slot of missiles, a light engine, one slot of thrusters possibly, and shields.

VERY cheap.
VERY VERY cheap.
You can build these in huge numbers.
They are gateable, they're tough against beamers, far tougher than your DNs, cost for cost, and they're nasty in a missile duel, especially the 2 jammer 1 comp omega torp variant.

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 14 October 2003 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deuce is currently offline Deuce

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 94
Registered: June 2003
1000 dreadnoughts with 38 missiles each is going to cost you in the vicinity of two million KT's of ironium. Its fun to play with big numbers, but it becomes pretty theoretical at this point.

If I had one hundred BILLION battleships in that battle I'd still beat you Wink

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 14 October 2003 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
Deuce wrote on Tue, 14 October 2003 20:04

1000 dreadnoughts with 38 missiles each is going to cost you in the vicinity of two million KT's of ironium. Its fun to play with big numbers, but it becomes pretty theoretical at this point.

If I had one hundred BILLION battleships in that battle I'd still beat you Wink

Equipped with lasers, at that. Grin



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Wed, 15 October 2003 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

With lasers on a DN vs armageddons on a DN. With full 38 weapons, 8 sheilds (1 over thruster on the laser DN), 8jammer 30's or 8 battle Nexi.....

Resource to Resource...
The missile DN will use 6 volleys to annhilate the entire laser fleet. The Laser fleet needs 7+ shots to take out the missile fleet - they'll only fire 3.

Ironium to Ironium...
The laser DN's win with 33% damage (roughly).

Your 1,000,000,000 DN's with lasers may be able to take out 1,000 DN's with arms.... but 250,000,000 missile DN's will rip yours apart Smile

And for another 38 resources over your Laser DN's I can build Light Phaser DN's which do 2.6 times more damage!!!

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Fri, 17 October 2003 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
Huh? I'm baffled. Rolling Eyes

All these numbers are too big for my little mind, but I don't think 1000 dreadnoughts with armageddons will kill 1 billion battleships (or scouts, for that matter), even if the battleships are unshielded and sport only a single laser on each. Assuming the battleships have adequate movement to engage the dreadnoughts, of course. 1 billion is an awfully big number - I doubt 1000 dreadnoughts has anywhere near enough missiles to kill them all before the remainder of those 1 billion weapon platforms come into play, probably taking out the 1000 dreadnoughts in a single volley.

So, I can't back it up mathematically, but I'm betting my money on the 1 billion laser-armed scouts. All I know for sure is that my money is a lot less than 1 billion anything. Laughing

It was a frivolous discussion at the point where lasers came into the mix, anyways. Actually, at the point where 1 billion battleships came into the mix (and if you ask Deuce, it became frivolous at the point where 1000 dreadnoughts were put into the mix). Sheesh, next thing ya know someones going to point out the fleet limitations and battleboard overload, etc. Twisted Evil

Oh, and if ya wonder why I spelled out "billion" with letters instead of numbers, remember whose talking, here. Laughing (how many zeroes is that, again?)



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Fri, 17 October 2003 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

one billion scouts vs 1,000 DN's with armageddons - scouts win!!!!

One billion scouts vs 1,000 DN's with AMP's - DN's win Very Happy


p.s. - zoid... it's Nine zero's.

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Mon, 20 October 2003 01:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1181
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
freakyboy wrote on Fri, 17 October 2003 15:11

one billion scouts vs 1,000 DN's with armageddons - scouts win!!!!

One billion scouts vs 1,000 DN's with AMP's - DN's win Very Happy

Nope. 1 billion scouts would have 25 billion armor, and 1000 AMP DNs'd do 25 millions damage per shot. They'd need 1000 shoots to kill all scouts.
Apparently quantity has quality of its own Wink
BR, Iztok


[Updated on: Mon, 20 October 2003 01:11]

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Mon, 20 October 2003 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overworked is currently offline overworked

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 403
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iztok wrote on Mon, 20 October 2003 01:10

Hi!
freakyboy wrote on Fri, 17 October 2003 15:11

one billion scouts vs 1,000 DN's with armageddons - scouts win!!!!

One billion scouts vs 1,000 DN's with AMP's - DN's win Very Happy

Nope. 1 billion scouts would have 25 billion armor, and 1000 AMP DNs'd do 25 millions damage per shot. They'd need 1000 shoots to kill all scouts.
Apparently quantity has quality of its own Wink
BR, Iztok


Sounds good on paper, but I bet there's some sort of damage overload bug in the Battle Board. I seem to recall a few players hitting it in one of Xdude's monster games.

- Kurt



Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
- Groucho Marx

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 21 October 2003 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1181
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

Sounds good on paper, but I bet there's some sort of damage overload bug in the Battle Board. I seem to recall a few players hitting it in one of Xdude's monster games.

You can not have more than 32000 ships in one token, and more than 256 tokens on battle board. So 1 billion scouts against 1 thousand DNs can't ever happen.
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 21 October 2003 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hetzer

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1
Titans of Steel mentor

RIP Hetzer, Nov. 28, 2006

Messages: 139
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hollywood

I think that the damage bug that he was referring to was about the amount of damage that a token could do. I lost a battle to SuperXdude in a duel a while back where my token of 8,000 flux cap beamer nubs was only doing about 250K damage instead of 2,500,000 damage Scared Trust me, this is not a good feeling.

The moral of this story is don't stack more than 2,500 of anything.

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 21 October 2003 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
zoid wrote on Fri, 17 October 2003 00:05

Sheesh, next thing ya know someones going to point out the fleet limitations and battleboard overload, etc. Twisted Evil


overworked wrote on Mon, 20 October 2003 05:56

Sounds good on paper, but I bet there's some sort of damage overload bug in the Battle Board. I seem to recall a few players hitting it in one of Xdude's monster games.

iztok wrote on Tue, 21 October 2003 02:08

You can not have more than 32000 ships in one token, and more than 256 tokens on battle board. So 1 billion scouts against 1 thousand DNs can't ever happen.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
What did I tell you?



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Wed, 22 October 2003 04:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1181
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

...Trust me, this is not a good feeling.

I trust you completely. I've been on receiving end of a similar bug, when 40k of shields just vanished. Even when host regenned for the third time, that bug remained. Sad I've lost 70% instead of 20-30% of my horde FFs at that time.
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Tue, 21 June 2005 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
iztok wrote on Wed, 22 October 2003 18:21

I trust you completely. I've been on receiving end of a similar bug, when 40k of shields just vanished. Even when host regenned for the third time, that bug remained. Sad I've lost 70% instead of 20-30% of my horde FFs at that time.
BR, Iztok



Just curious, but did you try battlesimming the same battle either before or after the problem? It'd be interesting to know if it's possible to replicate the problem, which would prove if it's a stars bug or a corrupt game (my money is on bug, but you never know if you don't test)

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Wed, 22 June 2005 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1181
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 22 June 2005 05:30

Just curious, but did you try battlesimming the same battle either before or after the problem? It'd be interesting to know if it's possible to replicate the problem, which would prove if it's a stars bug or a corrupt game (my money is on bug, but you never know if you don't test)

The test is pending, but very very very Wink low on my priority list. For now I live with a rule of thumb: if there are ships in battle with more shields than armor it is likely that "bug" will happen again.
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Sat, 03 July 2010 05:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1154
Registered: May 2008
*casts Animate Thread* Laughing

Nubians can take DNs iron for iron in a missile match, surprisingly. At least, so says my testing. Confused

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Sun, 04 July 2010 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1181
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

Nubians can take DNs iron for iron in a missile match
That's not a secret. Even old gurus agreed on this: DN's the best missile platform in the game. But one can only rarely have enough Iron to capitalize on that, and chaff still beats Armageddons. Wink

BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Re: DN vs Nubian Sun, 04 July 2010 04:34 Go to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1154
Registered: May 2008
iztok wrote on Sun, 04 July 2010 17:56

Hi!
Quote:

Nubians can take DNs iron for iron in a missile match
That's not a secret. Even old gurus agreed on this: DN's the best missile platform in the game. But one can only rarely have enough Iron to capitalize on that, and chaff still beats Armageddons. Wink

BR, Iztok


Except that calling it the best missile platform in the game is misleading/untrue if it's not the most effective missile ship. Confused

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: WM
Next Topic: Blunderbuss
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sat May 26 23:00:01 EDT 2018