Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » The Ring 2 (New Game)
| Re: The Ring 2 |
Fri, 31 March 2017 23:22   |
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HI,
yes for HE general or -f in special. Also if I read right the 150 Point Handicap
was in the other game to play against beginner and hurts a lot.
I would go with the 150 Points against Experts and see when I die.
ccmaster
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sat, 01 April 2017 02:36 |
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 craebild |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark | |
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Hi,
I would like to point out that one of the claimed advantages for SS in this game setup isn't there.
It has been said that because everyone has weapons expensive, the SS gets a lot of points into weapons from their spying bonus, but the SS also has weapons expensive, so they also need more points to advance in weapons. In this game setup, SS has the same setting for weapons as everyone else, and in a normal game (assuming everyone takes weapons cheap in a normal game), SS also has the same setting for weapons as everyone else, so there is no difference in that regard, as the increased spying bonus is directly proportional to the increased cost.
Of course, in a no-comms games SS has an advantage in their better intel gathering abilities, and since tech trade is impossible in this game setup, their spying bonus is more of an advantage than in games where tech trade is possible, so this game setup does favour SS, which may be why all SS races in the last game were in dominant positions. However, it cannot be ruled out that those dominant positions might be at least partly because of the skill of those players, and/or weak neighbours.
I suspect points can be made that this game setup also favours other PRTs than SS, should those other PRTs be penalised because of that ?
I would like to know not only when the deadline for races is, abut also when the rules for race handicaps will be finalized, as it is difficult to design and testbed a race when you don't know what rules the race has to comply with.
I would also like information on the last game, so we can see how the PRTs fared in that game. The players who played in the last game already knows that (at least for some of the races in the last game), which gives those players an advantage in this game.
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sat, 01 April 2017 03:53 |
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| Akchir |
 | Crewman 3rd Class |
Messages: 5
Registered: March 2017 | |
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nmid wrote on Fri, 31 March 2017 08:09
If he's playing, he should play a weekend duel of 50 years with any of us + his race should be checked by a mentor who makes sure he doesn't take a slow start HP race or GR/UR as a PRT etc.
Give him the centre spawn so he can expand, he'll get the experience + it will be a good impediment for the border races to expand to the middle.
weekends are mostly family time  I have only available time from 7PM till 10PM GMT. If there is someone who could play with me in that time - I'd be more than happy 
ManicLurch wrote on Fri, 31 March 2017 10:20
I don't know about spawning him in the middle, but the other options seem like a good idea. Especially the dueling, if he can show that he can play well against experienced players in a few duels before the game starts, then we should consider letting him play. We do need to grow our player community after all.
Spawning in the middle sounds interesting  There would be no advantage/disadvantage for any experienced player, I'd have good chance to expand with ~4 times more planets than any one else and I'd have very good excuse for fast loosing after being ganged up from 8 sides 
[Updated on: Sat, 01 April 2017 05:39] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sat, 01 April 2017 13:47 |
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| BackBlast |
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Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock | |
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craebild wrote on Fri, 31 March 2017 23:36Hi,
I would like to point out that one of the claimed advantages for SS in this game setup isn't there.
It has been said that because everyone has weapons expensive, the SS gets a lot of points into weapons from their spying bonus, but the SS also has weapons expensive, so they also need more points to advance in weapons. In this game setup, SS has the same setting for weapons as everyone else, and in a normal game (assuming everyone takes weapons cheap in a normal game), SS also has the same setting for weapons as everyone else, so there is no difference in that regard, as the increased spying bonus is directly proportional to the increased cost.
It still is. The research advantage scales, thus SS does not feel the full penalty that other prts will with the limitation. It is a small thing but still a thing.
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sat, 01 April 2017 14:16 |
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| dlrichert |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 1 |
Messages: 136
Registered: January 2012
Location: US | |
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craebild wrote on Sat, 01 April 2017 01:36Hi,
..
I would also like information on the last game, so we can see how the PRTs fared in that game. The players who played in the last game already knows that (at least for some of the races in the last game), which gives those players an advantage in this game.
I did play in the last game. Will say that I believe we had one beginner in the game. That player was the first to go. Under this setup neighbors of a beginner are in the best position to take advantage so hope we keep players closer in skill. Players playing SS in the last game were veteran players so no surprise they would end up near the top. Previous handicaps are ok but perhaps IT is penalized a bit much. Last game had 2SS,2SD,1IS,1IT,1AR,1WM. I like handicaps at least in some game because it tends to add more variety of races.
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sat, 01 April 2017 15:47 |
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| BackBlast |
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Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock | |
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dlrichert wrote on Sat, 01 April 2017 11:16I did play in the last game. Will say that I believe we had one beginner in the game. That player was the first to go. Under this setup neighbors of a beginner are in the best position to take advantage so hope we keep players closer in skill.
This is especially true in a game such as this where there are limited neighbors and with reduced penalties for aggression, aggression is expected to be high.
Having the beginner in the core might work as an interesting alternative. It gives them a period of breathing space and then provides an obstacle for core expansion for others, well, an obstacle in addition to the long light years of empty space.
Quote:Players playing SS in the last game were veteran players so no surprise they would end up near the top. Previous handicaps are ok but perhaps IT is penalized a bit much. Last game had 2SS,2SD,1IS,1IT,1AR,1WM. I like handicaps at least in some game because it tends to add more variety of races.
I think having a race you piloted in a game up for some kind of handicap is the best (backhanded  ) complement a player can receive from the community. It is a testament to the skill and ability of the pilot of the race.
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Mon, 03 April 2017 14:03 |
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nmid wrote on Mon, 03 April 2017 09:50@Altruist
How true.. it just feels a couple of games ago.
I really appreciate your game series that got me started.
When I look back at my dropbox folder, the number of games I've played since are startling (and a reminder to organize those folders!!).
You are (or rather were) more than welcome.
And I am happy that the initial idea to get new players to join the community and to help them getting competitive asap worked well (considering how difficult it has become to beat some of them ingame or that some have become superb hosts with an ability to create scenarios and to use tools that goes way beyond my own ability).
[Sorry for having gotten offtopic... once again.]
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sun, 09 April 2017 14:37 |
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| ludek |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 23
Registered: December 2009 | |
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I might be interested(I play in Get the planet and it will take more and more of my time.. though with 'luck' I may due fast ) but I did not like ring setup as it was in first game IMO it has serious falw .. outer fing was not thick enugh to allow mobile warfare .. if one side have advantage it's just straight push and if both sides are equal in fleet strength and production capacity war in the ring degenerates to static frontline with both sides trying outproduce enemy. It happened to me playing Duergars and at war with Boombooms ... I relatively quickly made them irrelewant in the centre (then absorbed their colonies there) .. then I hit roadblock (so do Boombooms): we had only one way to attack and had to outproduce opponent. I was very strong on defence as this narrow front made SD minelaying advantage rather irrelevant but they were equally strong on defence too and there was literary no other way to attack for both of us.
My proposed solution/solutions are :
- give more planets to players pushing it up to 50 .. and put those planes in thicker outer ring
- make central eye smaller
- add sparse edges to outer part of the ring (peraps make densinty fall futher you are from outer edge)
- make inner void not so clear of stars add there some .. just at low density.
My other thoughts:
Player starting in central eye
It is interesting idea .. not sure how much it's advantage .. maybe place there IT (both planets). If eye have desively more planets it could compensate for points requied to put aside.
IS too strong(so need to put more points aside) ..
I do not think they are too strong .. it's economic PRT also their advantage is eaten significantly by more expensive ships due to increased weapons cost. Also one should think how that penalty affect different types of economy (-f, QS, HG,HP) imo -f and QS are most sensitise to such penalties as they are wery edge viability as things are now and this game setup already penalises them with limiting directions of their expansion (those economy types relay on early and successful expansion).
JoaT
I do not think that forbidding to take NAS or requiring to dump points gained from NAS is fair, because:
- if NAS SS dose not pay more for it .. both races get similar advantage as they both get penscans .. Joat with NAS just build more cheap scouts to get planet scans, with penscans SS with it's first scanner emulates Joat with elec 4/5 increased cost is peanuts compared to resources spend on warships and research or just planet dewelopent. Midgame cloaked robberbarons are IMO far superior to joat scanning ships .. they allow to scan whole enemy territory while Joat simply can't if that territory is deep enough .. and they have other uses during planetary siegeges .. or raids and again expenses on them are irrelevant as they are tiny fraction of resources spend elsewhere.
- as player i take NAS as antiSS measure and early game advantage (even as IS) .. lack of penscans changes only amount of info I have on enemy on the border (fleets at planet and populations) .. in mainfleet battle no one should trust penscans .. best is to ping all planets in range to affect battle. With MT toys in the game it gets less important as they make ships cloaked and giwe penscaning capability. Asking to dock points is fair as Joat get similiar utility as other players or forbidding it makes one weaker against SS and cloaked ships in general.
- do not forget that Joat is already penalized by starting number of scraps.
- how often one sees Joat in the game ? Far lees often than IS or SD,SS I would say. This prt does not have any special ability .. it just have more resources (but it does not translates into minerals so after midgame this becomes more and more useles) .. I would not gimp it further. Good scanning/penscannig may be only thing going for Joat in lategame and still not magic bullet as tachars are.
- also proposed method to taxing for is bit unfair as it requies to dump base NAS pint gain , what about case when NAS point gain is lowered by number of LRTs taken? my point is that in such cases point gain from NAS is lower and thus impact on economy settings.
MT/random events
I prefer it enabled with rules allowing to intercept MT's as it changes unpredictably situation with MT toys and tech. It giwes adwantage to some players .. sure but it's rarely desive.. even last game where there were 8 or 9 MT in very early midgame (that was very rare MT 'invasion' ) .. I intercepted them all it was hardly game changer IMO.
CA
With those limitation CA as well might be forbidden. In fact CA rule makes -f CA unplayable even if there might be found way to make narrowhab 16% HG/HP hybrid playable.
[Updated on: Sun, 09 April 2017 14:39] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Mon, 10 April 2017 08:21 |
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| BackBlast |
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Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock | |
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ludek wrote on Sun, 09 April 2017 11:37
JoaT
I do not think that forbidding to take NAS or requiring to dump points gained from NAS is fair, because:
- if NAS SS dose not pay more for it .. both races get similar advantage as they both get penscans .. Joat with NAS just build more cheap scouts to get planet scans, with penscans SS with it's first scanner emulates Joat with elec 4/5 increased cost is peanuts compared to resources spend on warships and research or just planet dewelopent. Midgame cloaked robberbarons are IMO far superior to joat scanning ships .. they allow to scan whole enemy territory while Joat simply can't if that territory is deep enough .. and they have other uses during planetary siegeges .. or raids and again expenses on them are irrelevant as they are tiny fraction of resources spend elsewhere.
Actually, SS does not get the same massive point mine from NAS. It's worth half of the 95 for them and it does actually negatively impact their scanning abilities with a smaller selection of pen scanners.
Trying to level other races with SS intelligence is a practice in futility.
JOAT pen scanner is based on elect level. What you say is only true if the JOAT doesn't bother researching elect at all, otherwise they only need research level 12 elec to have an equivalent to a robber barron and can eventually have one over twice as good. They do need elect 20 to match elephant which means the only real disadvantage is the elect 16-19 range where their pen scanning is a bit worse than a non-NAS race. If they want to make the investment JOAT pen scanners are the best in the game at what they do.
Quote:- how often one sees Joat in the game ? Far lees often than IS or SD,SS I would say. This prt does not have any special ability .. it just have more resources (but it does not translates into minerals so after midgame this becomes more and more useles) .. I would not gimp it further. Good scanning/penscannig may be only thing going for Joat in lategame and still not magic bullet as tachars are.
I don't know what things are like now. But it was overwhelmingly popular when I was playing frequently in 2005-2007.
Quote:- also proposed method to taxing for is bit unfair as it requies to dump base NAS pint gain , what about case when NAS point gain is lowered by number of LRTs taken? my point is that in such cases point gain from NAS is lower and thus impact on economy settings.
Doesn't matter, if you're taking lots of LRTs you should have to pay for the quantity just like everyone else.
[Updated on: Mon, 10 April 2017 08:53] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Mon, 10 April 2017 14:00 |
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| ludek |
| Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 23
Registered: December 2009 | |
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BackBlast wrote on Mon, 10 April 2017 08:21ludek wrote on Sun, 09 April 2017 11:37
JoaT
I do not think that forbidding to take NAS or requiring to dump points gained from NAS is fair, because:
- if NAS SS dose not pay more for it .. both races get similar advantage as they both get penscans .. Joat with NAS just build more cheap scouts to get planet scans, with penscans SS with it's first scanner emulates Joat with elec 4/5 increased cost is peanuts compared to resources spend on warships and research or just planet dewelopent. Midgame cloaked robberbarons are IMO far superior to joat scanning ships .. they allow to scan whole enemy territory while Joat simply can't if that territory is deep enough .. and they have other uses during planetary siegeges .. or raids and again expenses on them are irrelevant as they are tiny fraction of resources spend elsewhere.
Actually, SS does not get the same massive point mine from NAS. It's worth half of the 95 for them and it does actually negatively impact their scanning abilities with a smaller selection of pen scanners.
Trying to level other races with SS intelligence is a practice in futility.
JOAT pen scanner is based on elect level. What you say is only true if the JOAT doesn't bother researching elect at all, otherwise they only need research level 12 elec to have an equivalent to a robber barron and can eventually have one over twice as good. They do need elect 20 to match elephant which means the only real disadvantage is the elect 16-19 range where their pen scanning is a bit worse than a non-NAS race. If they want to make the investment JOAT pen scanners are the best in the game at what they do.
In mid game both races have elec 10-16 (Nexi comp at elec 18 is IMO late game thing gained when one is maxing own tech)
Both races get similar penscanning at this stage (well SS at elec 16 or 15 but as PRT they tend to have good elec lewels), Joat form own ships that can't be improved (only by elec lewel), SS from robber barons on rouges or galeons and they can be stacked to increase range (At best I would use 3 but most likely two if I would want to increase penscannig).
SS penscanning rouges will be inferior in penscanning to joat in latter midgame but not terribly so and those scanners allow to pick up minerlas form enemy planets so you can make fast , cloaked, penscanner that can be used as to pick minerlas all in one design .. I do not think I would bother with another penscannig ship after that (even if I had option) .. maybe late game with nubians I would redesign this ship on nubian hull .. not sure if I would use other penscanner most likely not (i would use 3 robber barons, and pack beter regular scanners).
Only drawback is when Joat have 10-14 elec and SS is yet to get robberbarons.
Joat on other hand have to use dedicated fast, armoured and shielded destroyer and lose ship slot or just use scrimishing frigate/destroyer, or use dedicated pinger (to check by battle what in the orbit) all of this is cheaper than SS robberbarons but also have drawback of consuming ship slot or being inferior in survivability.
Non NAS races usually get better penscannig than Joat/NAS SS if they make dedicated scannig ship (and update it with better scanners) .. they also enjoy planetary penscanner that have good range are good at getting scans enemy border planets.
Personaly i find SS option far better (get similiar ranges most of the time, ship can have double duty in picking minerlas so no design slot is wasted) .. Joat penscanners are cheap and plentifull (up to time when you have to start doing scrimish with crusiers/nubians) but they are not exactly good or survivable unless one commits dedicated design or two (one scanner another overcloaker) as frigates/destroyers require overcloaking to get invisible.
NAS SS and non NAS races get similar results with their dedicated scanning ships as Joat penscanning do not stack.
[quote title=BackBlast wrote on Mon, 10 April 2017 08:21]ludek wrote on Sun, 09 April 2017 11:37
Quote:- how often one sees Joat in the game ? Far lees often than IS or SD,SS I would say. This prt does not have any special ability .. it just have more resources (but it does not translates into minerals so after midgame this becomes more and more useles) .. I would not gimp it further. Good scanning/penscannig may be only thing going for Joat in lategame and still not magic bullet as tachars are.
I don't know what things are like now. But it was overwhelmingly popular when I was playing frequently in 2005-2007.
I took part in 3 games last 3 years .. Joat is not that popular, IS,SS,SD,IT is far more.
Back in time(1999-2004) when I was playing it was not all that popular still more numerous than now I think.
[quote title=BackBlast wrote on Mon, 10 April 2017 08:21]ludek wrote on Sun, 09 April 2017 11:37
Quote:- also proposed method to taxing for is bit unfair as it requies to dump base NAS pint gain , what about case when NAS point gain is lowered by number of LRTs taken? my point is that in such cases point gain from NAS is lower and thus impact on economy settings.
Doesn't matter, if you're taking lots of LRTs you should have to pay for the quantity just like everyone else.
Question is what you are taxing - what you want to get rid of: excess points that can be used elsewhere (like economy) or tax certain utility gained.
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| Re: The Ring 2 |
Sat, 15 April 2017 08:09 |
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Hi,
Can you please clarify what planet movements will you be doing along with how you'll decide races positioning and neighbours?
I want to know if I create a 1/10 hab, will I get 4 breeders near me or if I create a 1/3 hab, I'll find nothing within a 2 w9 jump from the HW.
Can you also please release the Sophisticated creation files?
Thanks.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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