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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 12:25
Seems like you mean UTF8 header bytes?

Ahh, I should have guessed. Still, Stars! doesn't use them, and my Excel doesn't seem to know what they are for, either. Confused

Quote:
It's temporary here just for the debugging purposes and to make it easy to understand what does all these numbers means. But for an automation purposes EventId column should be used.

Makes sense. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Currently I always make it 0, but in fact there is a two byte "shortcut" used by goto button and it can reference planet, fleet, technology browser, etc. I'm not sure if it have any usage for automation purposes, but in any case I have to sort it out before dumping into the file.

I'd vote to export it with everything else. Does no harm, and could be useful. Teleport

m.a@stars
Well, yes and no. Format is the same, but in fact several event params actually use two value args, this is why I currently put them in one Arg, separated by "|" symbol. I'm still thinking on how to correctly dump these ones.

Weird. Looks like they should be in the same csv format as the rest, unless there's a better way. Sherlock

Quote:
m.a@stars
Perhaps you'll like to test against much bigger (and complex) m-files? I should have a handful fat ones still around. Lurking

Absolutely, just need to make sure it works on all of my games collection. Smile

Sweet. Let me know if you need more! Very Happy



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 17:23
As of group id, it seems to be always a power of 2

So they could be some sort of "bitmap" or bin-based "slot", similar to the way slot types are coded in hulls?? Sherlock



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 16:05
\E - this value is always stored as integer number and in case of temperature it is "as is" equal to temperature value shown in Stars! But I don't know how to convert this integer value to floating point gravity value and to radiation value. I cannot find it now, but if I remember correctly I have seen somewhere on the forum, how does this value can be converted.

Just export the ints (aka "clicks") and leave the conversions for the 2nd tier tools. Teleport

Besides being easier/faster for you, it eliminates ambiguities with low "Grav" values. Thumbsup 2



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 16:05
\g or \G - currently exported as an integer value, but it wasn't found in any of the m files

I think I have seen the messages that use that param when using erroneous cargo orders at Wormholes Shocked


[Updated on: Wed, 07 August 2013 12:09]




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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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XyliGUN
XAPBob
The hidden info I'd be concerned about is the MT sales pamphlet.

Wormhole info includes: what are the target wormhole, who seen it, and who been through.
Trader info includes: carrying item, and who already met him.

Thanks to the m files received, it's now verified, there IS a "hidden" info described above.
But imho, the only info really giving an advantage is knowledge on what trader carrying, others are mostly useless.




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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 16:05
\n - location, can be in form of either planet id, fleet id or space coordinates
planet is stored in form P|PlanetId
fleet is stored in form F|OwnerId|FleetId
space coordinates is stored in form C|x|y

Is that format your way to make things easier for toolmakers, or are there other reasons?

Because I don't think it's really needed, as most messages need to be specifically coded for, anyway. Whip


Quote:
\X - strange, but \X is always replaced by empty string in any event message, will be stored as empty Arg in export

Looks like a leftover from earlier versions. Is that param always empty in the m-file? Sherlock

What about the \s param? Seems many messages use it as fleet/ship Id, or perhaps a fleet name. Confused


[Updated on: Wed, 07 August 2013 12:35]




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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 18:26
XyliGUN
Wormhole info includes: what are the target wormhole, who seen it, and who been through.
Trader info includes: carrying item, and who already met him.

Thanks to the m files received, it's now verified, there IS a "hidden" info described above.
But imho, the only info really giving an advantage is knowledge on what trader carrying, others are mostly useless.

I wouldn't call it entirely useless. Who met a Trader tells you what to expect from their ships and/or tech, and even about their minerals and freightering capabilities. Rolling Eyes

Wormhole target coordinates are priceless for all those who haven't explored it yet, or even for those who want to launch a surprise attack thru it. "Who saw it" would tell you about their scouts and scanners (and hence tech, econ, and colonies), perhaps even their readiness against attacks. And almost the same can be gleaned from knowing who has already been thru it. Pirate



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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m.a@stars
Just export the ints (aka "clicks") and leave the conversions for the 2nd tier tools. Teleport

Besides being easier/faster for you, it eliminates ambiguities with low "Grav" values. Thumbsup 2

Just wondering what ambiguities do you mean? Confused



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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m.a@stars
I think I have seen the messages that use that param when using erroneous cargo orders at Wormholes

Can you share m + xy files with this event, so I can verify?



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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m.a@stars
Is that format your way to make things easier for toolmakers, or are there other reasons?

Because I don't think it's really needed, as most messages need to be specifically coded for, anyway.

My bad, you state it perfectly - I'm trying to make it easier, but it will require special code anyway. OK, let's make it simple and leave a special parsing to others. Smile



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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m.a@stars
What about the \s param? Seems many messages use it as fleet/ship Id, or perhaps a fleet name.

Yes, this is just a fleet id.



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 21:16
Just wondering what ambiguities do you mean? Confused

The way Stars! converts "clicks" to "grav" hab values isn't sloped enough for low gravities, so for the lowest dozen "grav" values it isn't easy to tell what their origin "click" value is. They are: 0.12, 0.12, 0.13, 0.13, 0.14, 0.14, 0.15, 0.15, 0.16, 0.17, 0.17 Wall Bash



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Re: "message pane" scraper Wed, 07 August 2013 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 07 August 2013 21:21
Can you share m + xy files with this event, so I can verify?

Sorry, it's been too long since I last made one of these mistakes, but it should be easy to testbed. Sherlock



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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 04:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The clicks to grav is discussed at length http://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=22 99&prevloaded=1&rid=1560&start=0

Leave it as an exercise for secondary tools (it's easy enough to do as either a calculation or a lookup table). However CLICKS are unique - values are not necessarily (low grave has ?10 repeated values) so it's actually MUCH better to get clicks.

- Some of the fleet items seem to imply that the fleet ID isn't unique - I presume it is, and that the "ship type" is actually just "extra" information.
- \v and \V are values, but what are \g and \G?

I'm actually going to go back to one of my earlier questions as well....
The fleet report is a bit weak in terms of telling you exactly what is in each fleet - I presume the information is available to have a count of each ship design ID (and associated name?) and percentage damage to each type, for each fleet ID (e.g. 32 integers per fleet ID)?
That, combined with the "normal" f report would actually provide a good view of what ships are where.

Additionally if the Clicks valuue for planets can be exported then that would allow for accurate tools (without having to guess at values)

These are probably extra tools (certainly other files) - but seem relevant here at the moment.

The below information is looking really useful though. I can certainly see this being useful to generate a complete list of "useful information" from an m file at the start of a turn.


[Updated on: Thu, 08 August 2013 04:22]

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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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m.a@stars
XyliGUN
Can you share m + xy files with this event, so I can verify?

Sorry, it's been too long since I last made one of these mistakes, but it should be easy to testbed. Sherlock

Very Happy

OK, here is an updated list of the event param formats:

  • \e - environment area (note: 0 - gravity, 1 - temperature, 2 - radiation)
  • \E - environment area value (seems to be in clicks from the left?)
  • \F - ship id (the same as fleet id)
  • \g or \G - currently exported as an integer value, but it wasn't found in any of the m files
  • \i - signed integer value
  • \I - change type (0 = decreased, 1 = increased)
  • \j - zero based research area id (0 - energy, 1 - weapons, 2 - propulsion, 3 - construction, 4 - electronics, 5 - biotechnology)
  • \k - technology id (4 bytes unsigned integer), stored in format: bits 0-15 is an ItemId, bits 16-31 is a GroupId
  • \l, \L or \Z - zero based player id
  • \m - cargo type (note: 0 - ironium, 1 - boranium, 2 - germanium, 3 - colonists, 4 - fuel)
  • \M - mine field type (0 - standard, 1 = heavy, 2 - speed bump)
  • \n - this param consumed 2 args, it specifies location (can be either planet id, fleet id or space coordinates)
  • \o or \s - zero based fleet id
  • \O - zero based owner id (the same as player id)
  • \p - zero based planet id (note: you have to add 1 to match a planet id as it shown in Stars!)
  • \P - percent value
  • \S - packet origin (the same as player id)
  • \v - 4 bytes unsigned integer value (note: some events treat it "as is", some add '00'/'kT'/'mg')
  • \V - 4 bytes unsigned integer value, but comparing to \v it always used as is, since it is already multiplied by 100
  • \X - strange, but \X is always replaced by empty string in any event message, will be stored as empty Arg in export
  • \z - design id (bits 0-4 - design id, bit 5 values: 0 - ship design, 1 - starbase design)

Hope this makes sense. Smile


[Updated on: Thu, 08 August 2013 05:30]




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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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XAPBob
The clicks to grav is discussed at length http://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=22 99&prevloaded=1&rid=1560&start=0

Cool! Thanks for pointing me. Smile

XAPBob
Leave it as an exercise for secondary tools (it's easy enough to do as either a calculation or a lookup table). However CLICKS are unique - values are not necessarily (low grave has ?10 repeated values) so it's actually MUCH better to get clicks.

Deal! Very Happy

XAPBob
- Some of the fleet items seem to imply that the fleet ID isn't unique - I presume it is, and that the "ship type" is actually just "extra" information.

Yes, exactly, this just a sort of an additional info for the formatting.

XAPBob
- \v and \V are values, but what are \g and \G?

There is only one event with the param \g and another one with \G:
\s attempted to execute transfer orders with \g involving either fuel or colonists. The attempt failed.
\s had orders to transfer cargo to or from a \G. A futile pursuit.
If someone can simulate а game with these events and send me an m + xy files, then I can say exactly what is this.

XAPBob
I'm actually going to go back to one of my earlier questions as well....
The fleet report is a bit weak in terms of telling you exactly what is in each fleet - I presume the information is available to have a count of each ship design ID (and associated name?) and percentage damage to each type, for each fleet ID (e.g. 32 integers per fleet ID)?

Yes, there is a count and damage per design id in fleet inside fleet block.

XAPBob
That, combined with the "normal" f report would actually provide a good view of what ships are where.
Additionally if the Clicks valuue for planets can be exported then that would allow for accurate tools (without having to guess at values)

Well, I hate to promise ahead..., but this is what on my to do list:

  • export players (player id, logo id, singular and plural names)
  • export planets (planet id, original/current environment, minerals concentration and available amount, starbase design id and damage, rout to target)
  • export designs (including design name, hull, items on board)
  • export fleets (several lines per fleet for each design id)
  • export events

So far I have all of these info extracted, just need to carefully drop it to CSV.
I thinking of the one command line for all of this, just with the different switches like: /export players, /export planets, /export designs, /export fleets, /export events.


XAPBob
These are probably extra tools (certainly other files) - but seem relevant here at the moment.
The below information is looking really useful though. I can certainly see this being useful to generate a complete list of "useful information" from an m file at the start of a turn.

XAPBob, just wondering, what kind of tool(s) are you going to do first once you have all of this info exported? Smile



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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 11:28
\X - strange, but \X is always replaced by empty string in any event message, will be stored as empty Arg in export

Hmmm, even if it's just a leftover from an earlier version, it could be interesting to know what Stars! puts in there. Unless you mean it's always blank? Sherlock



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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 12:14
There is only one event with the param \g and another one with \G:
\s attempted to execute transfer orders with \g involving either fuel or colonists. The attempt failed.

I don't quite recall this one, but could be an error message for trying to "transfer" colonists to an uninhabited planet. The very next msg (#285) mentions planets and is suspiciously similar. Sherlock

Quote:
\s had orders to transfer cargo to or from a \G. A futile pursuit.

The "futile pursuit" is most definitely related to Wormholes. UFO abduction

Quote:
If someone can simulate а game with these events and send me an m + xy files, then I can say exactly what is this.

It's not exactly easy to get a wormhole when and where you need it. Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Yes, there is a count and damage per design id in fleet inside fleet block.

Interesting! Dueling

Quote:
export players (player id, logo id, singular and plural names)

That'll be needed for the tools that want to render messages with race names in them. Lurking

Quote:
export planets (planet id, original/current environment, minerals concentration and available amount, starbase design id and damage, rout to target)

... and Packeting Destination, too, pls? Twisted Evil

A very interesting additional export (for future releases, perhaps) would be the details of the Production Queues. Hit over head


Quote:
export designs (including design name, hull, items on board)

Oh, yessss! Very Happy

That, coupled with some future tool to import designs, would enable a bunch of *very* interesting things. Pirate


Quote:
So far I have all of these info extracted, just need to carefully drop it to CSV.

I'm guessing that will include:
* details about foreign fleets
* battle debris
* packets
* minefields Whisper
* MT position / speed
?

I'm sure if you show us what the exported info looks like now, you'd be able to collect many useful suggestions! Cool


Quote:
I thinking of the one command line for all of this, just with the different switches like: /export players, /export planets, /export designs, /export fleets, /export events.

Well, since it's already an "exporter" tool, why not keep it simple imitating Stars! own style? i.e: "exporter [filename] -rpdfea" (where "r" stands for "races" and "a" would mean "all") Teleport


Quote:
just wondering, what kind of tool(s) are you going to do first once you have all of this info exported? Smile


    * "routes" checker/tweaker Work at computer
    * "packeting" checker/tweaker
    * "fuel" checker/tweaker (better if all waypoints known, not just the next)
    * "danger" analyzer
    * external shipdesign organizer/tweaker/library
    * prod Qs checker/tweaker
    * pop & mins "optimizer"? Asleep at cptr


[Updated on: Thu, 08 August 2013 09:59]




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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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m.a@stars
XyliGUN
Seems like you mean UTF8 header bytes?

Ahh, I should have guessed. Still, Stars! doesn't use them, and my Excel doesn't seem to know what they are for, either. Confused

Hmmm... How do you open it?
Could you try just locate CSV in explorer, then right click on CSV file -> "Open with..." -> Excel.
Or, if you have an association of CSV with Excel, then just double click on CSV.
Both should work well with any text file with UTF8 header. If it works for you?




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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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m.a@stars
Wormhole target coordinates are priceless for all those who haven't explored it yet, or even for those who want to launch a surprise attack thru it.

Oups, looks like I have to make it clear: there is no target coordinates.
There is just a target wormhole id, which is useless, since there are no wormhole with that id in m file if you cannot see it.



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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 19:55
Hmmm... How do you open it?

I use UltraEdit often, which usually tells me when something is UTF8, but not in this case. Mostly, I use Excel97, which happily opens it, but shows 2 "garbage" bytes in the 1st column header. Razz



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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 20:08
Oups, looks like I have to make it clear: there is no target coordinates.
There is just a target wormhole id, which is useless, since there are no wormhole with that id in m file if you cannot see it.

Ahhh, so less useful than I guessed, but still, once everybody gets to see the IDs of the WHs they know, they'll become just another piece of intel for trade. A valuable piece of intel that doesn't exist today. Whisper

Yay, innovation! Pirate


[Updated on: Thu, 08 August 2013 14:17]




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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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m.a@stars
I'm sure if you show us what the exported info looks like now, you'd be able to collect many useful suggestions! Cool

OK, here is a more samples:
1. See updated Test.zip here.
2. Real game sample FA5.zip here.
Comments, suggestions are welcome! Cool



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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 20:16
once everybody gets to see the IDs of the WHs they know, they'll become just another piece of intel for trade. A valuable piece of intel that doesn't exist today. Whisper

Yay, innovation! Pirate

On second thought, since it's a very particular piece of intel the Jeffs never intended to allow players to see/use, it'll be best if it's censored before leaving the server. UFO abduction Evil or Very Mad


[Updated on: Thu, 08 August 2013 15:46]




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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 22:22
m.a@stars
I'm sure if you show us what the exported info looks like now, you'd be able to collect many useful suggestions! Cool

OK, here is a more samples:
1. See updated Test.zip here.
2. Real game sample FA5.zip here.
Comments, suggestions are welcome! Cool

These samples include players, planets and events exports.



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