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Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 11 July 2010 02:58 Go to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 179
Registered: April 2006
Location: Nowra, Australia
Stars! Nova 0.4.1 has been released on sourceforge.

This release makes it possible to complete a single player game against the AI as bombing/invasion now work and the game detects elimination of the AI and declares a winner. Who will be the first non developer to complete a single player game of Stars! Nova?

This is a developmental release (alpha) and should not be considered a full playable game. It is released for members of the community interested the ongoing development of Stars! Nova and to obtain feedback. Please read the current bug tracker. Running Stars! Nova requires some effort to work around current known issues.

Thanks to all those who provided feedback on 0.4.0. Some of the issues raised have been addressed. Others have been added to the bug or feature request trackers.

Here is a list of what has been done in this release:

General:

- No backward compatibility with save games from earlier
versions. This means that old save games cannot be loaded
in this version.

- Created default races (as close to as currently possible).


Launcher:

- Removed the ability to resize the launcher window.


Race Wizard:

- Lesser racial trait "Cheap Engines" now costs points
instead of granting them.

- Factory operation 14 and 15 /10k grants now has correct
cost.

- Added option that techs costing 75% extra starts on
level 3/4.

- Changed order of tabs to: Race, Traits, Environment,
Production and Research.

- Moved "Factories cost 1 less G" to Production tab.

- Formated primary Racial traits.


Game Play Fixes / GUI:

- Defenses limited to 100.

- Fuel calculation now include the mass of the ships, not
just cargo. (This fix only works for newly created ships
and is not a retroactive fix for games in progress.)

- Way points can now be removed with the delete key (once
selected). The backspace key also (still) works.

- Fixed a logic error in VictoryCheck that counted unowned
stars as a second player, preventing victory by
extermination from being reported.

- Reworked the invasion angorithm so invasions now work.

- Unloading colonists at a star not owned by the fleet now
results in invasion (instead of adding the colonists to
the other race's star).

- Bombing now takes place.

- Fuel pods and cargo modules now add to the base hull
correctly.

- Corrected conversions of colonists to
kilotons-of-colonists.

- Up&Down buttons add to the production queue.

- It is now possible to replace a component in the ship
designer with another. (Component removal has not yet
been implemented.)

- Fixed incorrect cost when adding 10x components.

- Mine field is now displayed at correct size. Mine layers
lay mines continuously.

- Fixed an issue that caused fuel not to be subtracted for
legs that took less than 1 whole year/turn.

- Partial fix to prevent crash when attempting cargo
transfer where there is nothing to transfer.


Console:

- Forcing turn generation before any turns are submitted
no longer crashes the console.


Component Definitions Fixes:

- Fixed % chance to hit mines in components.xml.

- Updated race restrictions form speed trap 20 and orbital
construction module in components.xml

- Orbital construction module set to a minimum kill of 2000.
Component editor now accepts minimum kill values up to
10000.

- Fixes to components.xml by Coyote: race permision, mining
propeties for robo-miners, fixed some images, fixed
engines, all bombs now have the proper kill%, Orbital
Construction Module now has a bomb property.


Documentation:

- Updated the Getting Started Guide with command line
arguments.

- Replace font-dependent single character copyright symbol
with "(C)" for cross-platform compatibility.


AI:

- Fixed an issue that caused the AI to crash when run from
the command line with incorrect parameters.

- AI now builds factories/mines/defenses (introduced to aid
in testing of bombing.) Confirmed smart bombs do bomb.



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 11 July 2010 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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Daniel wrote on Sun, 11 July 2010 08:58

- No backward compatibility with save games from earlier
versions. This means that old save games cannot be loaded
in this version.

Just out of curiosity: why? Isn't the savegame format flexible enough? Also, sometimes obsolete-formatted files can be converted/padded/fixed to sidestep compatibility issues. Is that too difficult here? Sherlock


Quote:

- Fuel calculation now include the mass of the ships, not
just cargo. (This fix only works for newly created ships

I guess you'll be using the exact Fuel Usage formula that I posted around here long ago? Teleport


Quote:

- It is now possible to replace a component in the ship
designer with another. (Component removal has not yet
been implemented.)

Nothing can stop progress! Very Happy

I have yet another suggestion for the Ship Designer UI: allow several different designs to be opened at once, mostly for comparison purposes. Also, allow searches by name/race/hull/date/components... Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 11 July 2010 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

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Installing right now. Woo! Red bounce

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 11 July 2010 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

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"Fatal error: could not allocate home star."

Starting a game with each of the default races under AI plus a custom IS race under human control. Galaxy was 800x1200, density and uniformity don't seem to affect it.

Edit: 800x800 works fine. Maybe 1200 is just too large a dimension. :\ I was afraid initially that it was a bug with IT races' second world, but I guess that's not in yet anyhow.


...Making a larger universe doesn't actually create more stars, just more blackspace around the edge. Crying


One thing that I want to suggest right now is a toggle for each race in the host console to switch between human and AI control.

Another bug: the start @3 box seems to get switched off once the race starts a game. Not only does it have no game effect when selected, but loading the race after starting a game with it has the box deselected and 60 points free.


[Updated on: Sun, 11 July 2010 17:39]

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Wed, 14 July 2010 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! Nova developer
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Messages: 179
Registered: April 2006
Location: Nowra, Australia
Quote:

why? Isn't the savegame format flexible enough?


Some of the file formats are automatically generated from internal objects. This is a legacy from when Ken was doing this just to amuse himself. I have been working on converting them to xml but only half of them have been done so far. The xml format is more flexible but there is no guarantee that it will be 100% backwards compatible (but it is possible to manually edit edit them to make them compatible, which I have had to do for components.xml - this is a big time saver over having to re-enter all the components!) Once Stars! Nova reaches Beta we will endeavor to ensure it remains backwards compatible for saved games, or is able to convert them. At this stage there is too much changing in both the internal data formats and the file formats for that to be achievable.

Task #3027834 is tracking this issue: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3027834 &group_id=188744&atid=926546

Quote:

I guess you'll be using the exact Fuel Usage formula that I posted around here long ago?


Are you going to make me search for it?

Quote:

I have yet another suggestion for the Ship Designer UI: allow several different designs to be opened at once, mostly for comparison purposes. Also, allow searches by name/race/hull/date/components.


Added to the feature requests for the Ship Designer: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3022104 &group_id=188744&atid=926548

Quote:

"Fatal error: could not allocate home star."

Starting a game with each of the default races under AI plus a custom IS race under human control. Galaxy was 800x1200, density and uniformity don't seem to affect it.


The option to have non-square universes is not fully working yet. The old algorithm for picking home worlds is still in use and it assumes the universe is square. It has probably gone off looking outside the local bubble for stars destroyed in the Sznip-Fermis war.

Bugs #3029446 raised at priority 8: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3029446 &group_id=188744&atid=926545

Quote:

Making a larger universe doesn't actually create more stars, just more blackspace around the edge.


I get a lot more stars in 800x800 than 400x400. Can you send me your game files?

Quote:

One thing that I want to suggest right now is a toggle for each race in the host console to switch between human and AI control.


Bug #3029441 raised at priority 6: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3029441 &group_id=188744&atid=926545

You can currently set all races to AI control and then play their turns by un-checking the AI check-box and double clicking them.

Quote:

Another bug: the start @3 box seems to get switched off once the race starts a game. Not only does it have no game effect when selected, but loading the race after starting a game with it has the box deselected and 60 points free.


Issue #2923317 re-opened to correctly implement this feature at priority 4: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3018535 &group_id=188744&atid=926545




Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Thu, 15 July 2010 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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Daniel wrote on Wed, 14 July 2010 13:05

Some of the file formats are automatically generated from internal objects.

Shocked Hit Computer Whip


Quote:

Once Stars! Nova reaches Beta we will endeavor to ensure it remains backwards compatible for saved games, or is able to convert them.

Yes Cool Cheers


Quote:

Are you going to make me search for it?

Here 's the Academy link with the full explanation for lazy developers. Rolling Eyes

And here is the fully working Javascript version I built years ago, with full source code for the really lazy developers. Deal

Enjoy! Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Fri, 16 July 2010 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 15 July 2010 22:13



Here 's the Academy link with the full explanation for lazy developers. Rolling Eyes



I see there are very specific requirements for order of rounding to get the exact values Stars! produces. How much does it matter whether or not a clone of Stars! rounds the formula off the same? If the fuel used is plus or minus 1 more mg per leg when would that matter?

The only times I see it would matter are:
1. If the player is using a third party Stars! tool to predict the outcome.

2. If the clone's in-game display/report/tool generates different results from what happens in game (such as when the Stars! predicted fuel usage is different from actual fuel usage.)

So if the clone gives accurate predictions, and the formula are published, does it matter if they differ by a few points from Stars!? I ask because it makes a big difference to the development effort if we need to meet these exact requirements for every calculation (not just fuel).



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 17 July 2010 04:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

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Daniel wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 00:56

I see there are very specific requirements for order of rounding to get the exact values Stars! produces.

Most of it is just artifacts of integer math. Work with Integers and most of the time the correct numbers will just happen. Twisted Evil


Quote:

How much does it matter whether or not a clone of Stars! rounds the formula off the same? If the fuel used is plus or minus 1 more mg per leg when would that matter?

For all kinds of small, fuel-limited fleets, like early colonizers, minelayers, scouts, FF hordes, bombers, transports, chaff... Confused

Change the way all these small/early ships work and you're no longer a clone, but a variant. Teleport


Quote:

So if the clone gives accurate predictions, and the formula are published, does it matter if they differ by a few points from Stars!? I ask because it makes a big difference to the development effort if we need to meet these exact requirements for every calculation (not just fuel).

I'd say that Fuel Usage is one of the most important and used calculations in the whole game. Getting it exact would be as important as getting Habitability and Pop growth exact. Deal Luckily there's not many other calculations of that level. Cool



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 17 July 2010 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
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It is a good thing we have the formulas to work from then!



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 17 July 2010 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
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I don't see how it's necessary to reproduce rounding errors, as long as the formula as a whole is the same. A couple mg here and there are not a big deal... and if you're relying on them you're running way too close to the edge of disaster anyway.


In fact, why not include calculator utilities as part of the full release of Nova? Build them right into the UI!


[Updated on: Sat, 17 July 2010 17:18]

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 18 July 2010 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 23:10

I don't see how it's necessary to reproduce rounding errors, as long as the formula as a whole is the same. A couple mg here and there are not a big deal... and if you're relying on them you're running way too close to the edge of disaster anyway.

Some of these "rounding errors" are actually "warp bonuses". I'm not sure if these are actually a good thing for the game as a whole, but that's another matter. Deal

A couple mg are the difference between colonizing/scouting/attacking one turn or the next. Between getting that wonderful breeder near the border or seeing your neighbor snatch it from under you nose. Disaster, indeed. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Tue, 20 July 2010 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3
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Stars! Nova developer

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Coyote wrote on Sun, 18 July 2010 07:10

I don't see how it's necessary to reproduce rounding errors, as long as the formula as a whole is the same. A couple mg here and there are not a big deal... and if you're relying on them you're running way too close to the edge of disaster anyway.

In fact, why not include calculator utilities as part of the full release of Nova? Build them right into the UI!


That is the sort of response I was hoping for. However if even a minor difference in fuel/hab/growth/race-points is unacceptable then we haven't finished the task of building a Stars! clone. The purpose of the clone is to make the game more accessible to new players while keeping the current player base intact.



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Tue, 20 July 2010 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sirgwain is currently offline sirgwain

 
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Daniel wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 06:59

That is the sort of response I was hoping for. However if even a minor difference in fuel/hab/growth/race-points is unacceptable then we haven't finished the task of building a Stars! clone. The purpose of the clone is to make the game more accessible to new players while keeping the current player base intact.



I think the purpose behind duplicating the formulas almost exactly has more to do with play balance. The general belief is that the play balance in Stars! is really good. You can achieve that again but it would require a lot more play testing. Keeping the formulas and calculations exact reduces the need for timely play testing and balancing.

Granted, having a working game is higher priority than having calculations exact. Smile

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Wed, 21 July 2010 05:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Daniel wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 12:59

if even a minor difference in fuel/hab/growth/race-points is unacceptable

The Fuel Usage formula is a bit weird. It reflects an "travel/engine model" that's shaky at best. It could probably be improved. But that would be best left for later, once everything else was working. Deal

Luckily you don't have to find the math, only implement it. Rolling Eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Wed, 21 July 2010 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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sirgwain wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 19:30

the purpose behind duplicating the formulas almost exactly has more to do with play balance. The general belief is that the play balance in Stars! is really good. You can achieve that again but it would require a lot more play testing. Keeping the formulas and calculations exact reduces the need for timely play testing and balancing.

There's that, too. Sometimes, particularly in the early stages of a game, the exact fuel usage is paramount. As in, life or death. Make or break. Be there or be late, too late... Whip


Quote:

Granted, having a working game is higher priority than having calculations exact. Smile

Which is why some inaccuracy in the formulas is temporarily acceptable. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Fri, 26 November 2010 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strategic is currently offline Strategic

 
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Hi

Is anybody using Stars! Nova running it under Mono on Linux? Is anything other than Windows even a target platform? I assume it is from Sourceforge. Does that mean I can submit bugs directly there too?

Thanks


[Updated on: Fri, 26 November 2010 17:38]




Strategic

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Fri, 26 November 2010 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
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It is a goal of the Stars! Nova project to run under mono on linux and mac. However I believe it either does not run, or runs poorly depending on your distro in its current version. I am not running linux myself at the moment, though I do dual boot from time to time.

The project is on source forge and you can submit bugs there directly.

The project url is http://sourceforge.net/projects/stars-nova/



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Fri, 26 November 2010 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strategic is currently offline Strategic

 
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Okay, I just ran it under Debian Linux (Unstable), and it runs fine with minor bugs until you actually load the main game screen. From there, the canvas flickers constantly and you can't see a starmap Smile

But it looks like you've done a great amount of work here, definitely the best clone I've seen yet.

Is it your intention to stick with the original game design or do you intend to expand it? Expansion obviously comes with the risk of alienating the original community of course while enhancing what is available. Optional expansion should provide the best of both worlds, but comes at greater work.



Strategic

Past host of Walking on Eggs (2000), Walking on Shattered Eggs (2001), Dangerous Frontier (2001), Undisputed Power (2001), A Matter of Honour (2002) and Conflicted Empires (2002)

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 27 November 2010 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
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Strategic wrote on Sat, 27 November 2010 11:03


Okay, I just ran it under Debian Linux (Unstable), and it runs fine with minor bugs until you actually load the main game screen. From there, the canvas flickers constantly and you can't see a starmap Smile



Thanks for confirming that issue. I have only had one other report of that. Now it is confirmed I can up the priority.

Quote:


But it looks like you've done a great amount of work here, definitely the best clone I've seen yet.



Thanks, but it was already the most complete clone before the current development team picked it up, so we can't take all the credit.

Quote:


Is it your intention to stick with the original game design or do you intend to expand it? Expansion obviously comes with the risk of alienating the original community of course while enhancing what is available. Optional expansion should provide the best of both worlds, but comes at greater work.


The intention is for version 1.0 of Stars! Nova to be a clone of the Stars! gameplay with _optional_ enhancements. Those optional enhancements are things individual developers wanted to put in and are required to be selectable options. Any difference in gameplay between Stars! Nova and Stars! is a bug, unless it is a bug in Stars! we have decided to fix, as per the list here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/stars-nova/index.php?t itle=Specification#Bugs



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 27 November 2010 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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I don't think we'll need to worry that much about alienating the purists when you get to that point, as the hardcore purists will just play Original Stars! anyway. However, leaving the game open to third-party modding and expansion will maybe help breathe some new life into the game.
Just my my 2 cents


[Updated on: Sat, 27 November 2010 00:27]

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 27 November 2010 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
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I expect that additional options, third party add-ons and mods will be added along the way. Keeping the primary focus on making a clone prevents feature creap from drowning the project, simplifies many decisions and alows us to develop code despite limited documentation (which we are also working on). I would not be suprised if a number of branch projects spawn from this either along the way to 1.0 or after that.


Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 27 November 2010 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strategic is currently offline Strategic

 
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Quote:

I don't think we'll need to worry that much about alienating the purists when you get to that point, as the hardcore purists will just play Original Stars! anyway. However, leaving the game open to third-party modding and expansion will maybe help breathe some new life into the game.
Just my my 2 cents


I actually disagree with this. Stars! itself in it's current form is clearly dying due to the age of the game. A new open-source port which easily runs on modern PC's across all platforms with no commercial cost to the player will clearly pick up new players and breathe new life into the community. This is without putting any modifications into it at all Smile

Stars! itself has been a good enough game to attract an initially large community and then keep players for a number of years. We can't be sure what effect the modifications made to this port will eventually do to the community. Therefore, keeping in touch with the original playing base is a good idea.

As for hardcore purists sticking with the original Stars!, this may be true in some cases. However, you have to remember that Stars! is getting harder to run on some modern machines (particularly 64-bit) and eventually only those with enough computer technical skills or older PC's will be able to run it. The community will naturally die off.

I agree finally that adding extensions to the project will extend it and create more interest. But I think it's important to stick with the original concept too, so we don't lose sight of what the project really is. Therefore, I do think the design idea that Daniel has stated is the best.

It's a pity that the game is programmed in .NET, a platform I know nothing about or I could have seen what I could do to help Smile


[Updated on: Sat, 27 November 2010 08:39]




Strategic

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sat, 27 November 2010 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daniel is currently offline Daniel

 
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Strategic wrote on Sun, 28 November 2010 00:38


It's a pity that the game is programmed in .NET, a platform I know nothing about or I could have seen what I could do to help Smile



I knew next to nothing about .Net and nothing about C# before picking this project up. If you know C, C++ or java the learning curve is more in finding your way around the project than picking up the language syntax. Beginners are welcome!

You should take a look at the developer's primer: https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/stars-nova/index.php? title=Developer_Primer



Have fun.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 28 November 2010 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Quote:

Stars! itself in it's current form is clearly dying due to the age of the game.

The sheer amount of time it takes to run a full game of Stars! probably has more to do with the shrinking player base than any other factor, including its limited shiny. Rolling Eyes

Why aspiring Rulers of the Universe would consider excessive spending more than a single afternoon to conquer a big galaxy full of challenging aliens is beyond me. Shocked

Yet another parallel between Stars! and Chess. Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 28 November 2010 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Daniel wrote on Sat, 27 November 2010 09:55

Keeping the primary focus on making a clone prevents feature creap from drowning the project

Amen to that. Avoid drowning, whatever it takes! Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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