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Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 11:03 Go to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

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Favorite MT part[ 48 votes ]
1. Anti-Matter Torpedo 1 / 2%
2. Multi Contained Munition 3 / 6%
3. Hush-a-Boom 4 / 8%
4. Langston Shell 0 / 0%
5. Mega Poly Shell 14 / 29%
6. Multi Function Pod 0 / 0%
7. Multi Cargo Pod 0 / 0%
8. Genesis Device 1 / 2%
9. Enigma Pulsar 4 / 8%
10. Jump Gate 9 / 19%
11. Alien Miner 6 / 13%
12. Tech levels 3 / 6%
13. MT Auxillary craft 0 / 0%
14. I prefer no random event games 3 / 6%

If you could have any one MT part, which one would you select.


[Updated on: Sat, 06 December 2003 11:15]




- LEit

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
icebird is currently offline icebird

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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I am very partial to ITs, so the jump gate is my favorite part. UFO abduction From anywhere to anywhere in one turn. Teleport Very fun.


-Peter, Lord of the Big Furry Things

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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LEit wrote on Sat, 06 December 2003 10:03

If you could have any one MT part, which one would you select.




I voted for the MPS, but it also really depends on the PRT/LRT being played...

MPS missile Dreads on a WM is perhaps the worst nightmare ship you can encounter.

For many -f's, the Genesis Device is quite handy. Who cares about mines being destroyed! It's great for tri-immune HE's and -f IS's, too. For an AR, it's only worth is trying to make a planet more habitable. Almost not worth the effort.

For HP's and some HG's I play, the alien miner is the most attractive. Or, depending on minerals, the Hushaboom. Ofc, IT's need not worry about B52 gatability, but may like leaving some factories, even if they are -f.

In horde strategies, I've used the MCM to great effect, but it would be a waste with a CA, against narrow band races.

The AMT has it's own place, if you have the Bio. So either a really *long* game, or playing a CA.

The Enigma Pulsar is an incredible engine for Nubs, especially you are IS or HE, but a waste on WM's.

-Matt



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
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mlaub wrote on Sat, 06 December 2003 13:51

The Enigma Pulsar is an incredible engine for Nubs, especially you are IS or HE, but a waste on WM's.


I don't understand why it's better for IS or HE. For WM on a Nubian it is a waste. But for DNs it's nice. The jet effect is # of engines / 2 round up, so a DN gets the effect of 3 jets.



- LEit

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

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Fire bounce LOOK! IT'S ANOTHER MT COMING TO NULLIFY SOME MORE OF MY OPPONENTS UNFAVORABLE LRT/PRT TRAITS! KILL HIM! Fire bounce

Since you were nice enough to include the "No Random Events" preference, it's no contest. I'd rather everyone be forced to live with their choices and keep my minerals.

Unfortunately, I've never found such a game to play in. Everyone wants their unfavorable LRT/PRT choices nullified, except me. The MT is my least favorite thing about this game. As long as he's showing up I am compelled to send him 9800kt of minerals just to be certain my opponents gain no advantage from it, but I sigh and curse every time he shows up rather than celebrating. It would be nice if there was the option to battle him, although not nearly as nice as him not showing up at all.

Now THERE'S a pleasant dream - another game including random events where my opponents are waiting for the MT to come, and he never does - I love it.



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sinla is currently offline Sinla

 
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icebird wrote on Sat, 06 December 2003 19:07

I am very partial to ITs, so the jump gate is my favorite part. UFO abduction From anywhere to anywhere in one turn. Teleport Very fun.


Partial to IT? Are you Crazy ? Wink
1 thing about the JG: When you are on planet it won't work IIRC?



If you can't beat me... Run away...

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Sinla wrote on Sat, 06 December 2003 22:36

icebird wrote on Sat, 06 December 2003 19:07

I am very partial to ITs, so the jump gate is my favorite part. UFO abduction From anywhere to anywhere in one turn. Teleport Very fun.


Partial to IT? Are you Crazy ? Wink
1 thing about the JG: When you are on planet it won't work IIRC?



When you are in orbit of a planet that has a gate and is owned by you or someone who has set you to friend, you won't be able to gate since the ship will try to use the gate on the base.
This means: "from anywhere to anywhere in two turns", one turn moving deepspace or to a planet without a gate, the second turn the actual gating.

Anwyay this is a truly wonderful toy! It safes you lots of pop growth and makes mineral distribution so much easier ...

mch

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Re: Favorite MT part Sat, 06 December 2003 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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Quote:


I don't understand why it's better for IS or HE. For WM on a Nubian it is a waste. But for DNs it's nice. The jet effect is # of engines / 2 round up, so a DN gets the effect of 3 jets.


IS and HE already get a 1 slot freebie on Nubs with the Jammer 50 and flux cap (both disputable advantages, I suppose, but very powerful IMO). Adding extra speed to an already 1 slot advantage means counter design for an opponent is a real problem. This assumes that the the other guy isn't using/doesn't have the Enigma pulsar, or isn't a war monger.
I am basing this on real game knowledge. I once had to counter a IS that had the Enigma Pulsar, and I didn't. I gave up on missile/torp designs as just 1 stack of jammer 50's are tough to blow through, and ended up with a non-jammed AMP counter to his mainline Nub. It was ugly, and we fought over the same planets for 30 years, but I beat him before we hit 10k nubs on each side. If he hadn't been iron/germ poor, I would have been meat.

As to the WM...the DN is an excellent missile/torp platform, but sucks as a beam platform, at any speed. This can be disputed, ofc, but no one has beat me via this method, and my testing shows it is a bad idea. Gut reaction to extra speed on the DN is that it would be great for retreat orders, but otherwise superfluous.

-Matt



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Favorite MT part Sun, 07 December 2003 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
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There is a period where you have DNs but not nubians. In that part of the game DNs do make good beamers.



- LEit

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Re: Favorite MT part Sun, 07 December 2003 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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LEit wrote on Sun, 07 December 2003 09:29

There is a period where you have DNs but not nubians. In that part of the game DNs do make good beamers.



As I said, this can be disputed. I'm glad that you feel you can make them work satisfactorily.

-Matt



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Favorite MT part Sun, 07 December 2003 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
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No, it really can't be disputed.

DNs are better beamers than BBs or Cruisers, DDs, or Frigates.

You can put ten caps on with no wasted slots, you can put a *lot* of shields on, and you can put more weapons.

With certain MT parts (MPS, Langston Shell, Enigma pulsar), the DN will be *very* nasty and powerful.

And the only reason that nubs are better beamers is that they can have many more BDs, have slightly better base armor, and are far cheaper, especially the BD-heavy designs.

But the DN still whallops BBs.

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Re: Favorite MT part Sun, 07 December 2003 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Very Happy And once again the DN vs nub discussion has started. Grin

Sotek wrote on Sun, 07 December 2003 21:57

And the only reason that nubs are better beamers is that they can have many more BDs, have slightly better base armor, and are far cheaper, especially the BD-heavy designs.

And nubs are lighter which means two things: they will move last (you can play with range) and they can gate without losses.
But the main thing that makes them better beamers are indeed the defs, those make the DN firepower meaningless ...
Quote:

But the DN still whallops BBs.

Can't disagree with that. The DNs will probably always fire first and their fire power can be so immense there will nothing left of the BB fleet that was so unfortunate of meeting the DN fleet ...

mch

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Re: Favorite MT part Mon, 08 December 2003 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
LEit wrote on Sat, 06 December 2003 17:03

If you could have any one MT part, which one would you select.


From my POV it's hard to say. Most games I've been in ended before any serious MT trade happened, or there were no random events. In the last game I've been in I got the Alien Miner from the very first MT that arrived. I have immediately bought needed tech and 've built three 4000-mines fleets. When serious fighting started I've already drained 5 or 6 rich red planets, so my germ stock was good despite playing a HP race. For RL reasons I had to quit that game, but if I could strip-mine all starting 14 planets I'd get enough germ to build additional 1500 AMP nubs. However all that would mean only a dent in the amount of minerals my AR ally with the biggest fountain in the universe could've provided. Wink
BR, Iztok


[Updated on: Mon, 08 December 2003 04:41]

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Re: Favorite MT part Mon, 15 December 2003 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

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1) I play AR a lot lately and jump gate is best it can get.

2) For other races i have played its definitely alien miner since i had OBRM always.

3) In theory if i played non AR race without OBRM i would take MPS or HaB.

4) If it was the game condition that i can pick one part and will have it from the start i would probably design OBRM AR race and ask alien miner. 70 points in race wizard and +10% pop per planet... cant go wrong with it. Wink

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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 05 March 2004 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Inquisitor80 is currently offline Inquisitor80

 
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Anybody know of a edit that makes MT technology selectable from the race wizard? I think that would be an interesting addition to a multi player game.


- Inquisitor80
___________________________________
We must move forwards not backwards, upwards not forwards, and always twirling, twirling, twirling toward freedom.

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Re: Favorite MT part Tue, 16 March 2004 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ptolemy is currently offline Ptolemy

 
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Well, I vote for the Alien miner. With it you can build lots of cheap mini-miners and can always select OBRM. It is hard to choose somewhat since the megapoly shell and the langston shell are great parts mid game.

Inquisitor: Sorry, there is no way to select MT parts - the Mystery Traders hand them out randomly.

Ptolemy




Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.

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Re: Favorite MT part Wed, 17 March 2004 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Inquisitor80 is currently offline Inquisitor80

 
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Actually i was asking if the MT could be taken out of the equation and be able to pay race points for their various goodies at the start of the game. Laughing

-Inquisitor80



- Inquisitor80
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We must move forwards not backwards, upwards not forwards, and always twirling, twirling, twirling toward freedom.

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Re: Favorite MT part Thu, 25 March 2004 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
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M-P-S
M-P-S
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wOOt 2

The Crusader Angel



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Re: Favorite MT part Thu, 25 March 2004 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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I think it would be possible to run a special game where each player is given a specific MT toy at the start of the game. (I bet captain maim could do it.)

I've heard it is possible to give all MT tech a race, that race could create ships each equipped with a specific MT part to scrap at each player's star to gift the tech. Drawback of this technique would be the inevitable tech traded at the same time.

I expect Captain Maim could get around that somehow, I think this sort of thing is his specialty Cool

This would make for an interesting game - would you choose Alien miner or MPS for the power? Or would you choose something else for the trade possibilities (on the assumption most people will take AM/MPS)

Obviously you'd disable random events so there's no way other than trade of getting more parts.

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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 26 March 2004 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
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Hi!

A game where every player gets one MT part in 2400 would be predictable, because there would be 2 sorts of players: Those who choose MCM and those who choose something else.

Or does anyone know how to deal with a -f race that starts on turn 1-6 the production of DD with fuel mizer, fuel pod and 3 MCM?
Those DDs could pen scan, lay mines, bomb and have tech level 21 weapons. I think one would at least need tech 10 in weapons and 9 in con to counter those ships and by the time one has those the enemy would start producing BBs, since he could choose weapons to be expensive and concentrate on construction.
Oh yes, i forgot, Anti-Matter Torps are good counter, since they have range 6, but MCM would still be better because of pen scan, mine laying and bombing. And maybe the best starting choice would be 3 MT life boats Very Happy.

But a game where you receive one MT part, when you have the needed tech levels, would be very interesting. With a host race, which has all MT parts, its easy, players inform host when they are near the needed techs, so the scrapping fleet is ready the turn one reaches the needed techs. Of course host would have to check, that nobody is fooling him on his techs.

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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 26 March 2004 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
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You can kind of do that anyway.

There is a difference between having the part on existing ships and being able to build new ships with that part.
Scrapping for the part only allows you to build it when you do have the needed tech levels.
As long as you don't change the tech levels needed to build the MT parts then I don't see the problem.

Or am I missing something ?

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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 26 March 2004 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
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mazda wrote on Fri, 26 March 2004 05:14

You can kind of do that anyway.

There is a difference between having the part on existing ships and being able to build new ships with that part.
Scrapping for the part only allows you to build it when you do have the needed tech levels.
As long as you don't change the tech levels needed to build the MT parts then I don't see the problem.

Or am I missing something ?

Nope. You didn't miss a thing. Got it right the first time. Unless, of course, I'M missing someting. Balloon



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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 26 March 2004 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
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To setup a game where each race has one MT item he is interested in without hacking or messing around with files would take quite a time.
1) pick up all pop from all planets besides host race.
2) make sure that host race does not research so SS does not gain bonus.
3) catch MT-s with host race until it has all needed items.
4) if comet hits something, restore the turn.
5) take player 1.
6) host give warships to player.
7) host initiates battle with player having requested by player items on board.
8 ) if player gains tech restore the turn and back to 7)
9) if player gains nothing back to 7)
10) if player gains item then ok with this player.
11) if there are more players take next player and back to 6)
12) colonize all the players back to their planets, build the initial orbitals, get rid of any ships besides initial ships.
13) done Wink


[Updated on: Fri, 26 March 2004 09:03]

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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 26 March 2004 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
Kotk wrote on Fri, 26 March 2004 15:02

...
8 ) if player gains tech restore the turn and back to 7)
...

IIRC this will not work. In my testbed a player never got a part until he had ALL neded tech levels.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Favorite MT part Fri, 26 March 2004 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kotk

 
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I have surely gained a part (enigma pulsar) from battle without having required propulsion for it in real game. It was better than IS-10 i had so i took the propulsion immediately and redesigned lot of my ships. Thats why i remember it. I am not sure what patch it was.

I agree that the tech tend to come more often than item.

Other way with easier pain then:
0) wait for MT
1) find out what MT carries with host fleet
2) if it is not needed by anybody then back to 0)
3) restore the turn 2 turns before current
4) transfer the host mineral fleet to player who needs the item 5) meet the MT with player.
6) if someone still lacks item then back to 0)
7) done Wink


[Updated on: Fri, 26 March 2004 11:32]

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