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Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Thu, 07 August 2003 10:00 Go to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

Does anyone know of a good tutorial that teaches the concepts of MM well?

Personally, I am not that good at the small stuff involved in Stars! If I was able to improve this skill then I feel that my overall strategizing ability would help me to win a few games.

Thanks in advance for any help.



"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Thu, 07 August 2003 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mazda is currently offline mazda

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 655
Registered: April 2003
Location: Reading, UK
What sort of MM ?

The simple kind - like pop management, having freighters in the right place and always having the minerals on hand to build what you want when you want it.

Or the more complicated MM of battle and control of territory ?

I say the first is easier as you generally have all the input you need to be able to get it right.
There are lots of good tips on rgcs, from the maths behind pop expansion to fleet naming, it all helps. (well they helped me, but I have a numbers brain anyway)

The second type depends largely on what your opponents are doing/could do.
This is probably what makes the experts the players they are.
(and I am still pretty useless at it, for now).

Mainly though it's about time and willingness to put in the effort to prepare for the fun bits. Unless you are one of those people for whom the effort is the fun bit.

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Fri, 08 August 2003 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Basically there's a few things you need to keep in mind when micromanaging.

1. Keep your breeder worlds at 33% capacity. That's 360,000 for obrm non-joat, 400,000 for obrm joat. Keep enough cargo space in orbit to absorb the new population each year. Do not let them go beyond this limit, even for a little bit. Once you run out of places to put your people, and have nowhere to invade, fill your homeworld up to the brim and hold the rest at 50% capacity.

2. Bring minerals when you colonise! You'll need, say, 20% of your initial exports to be germanium and 80% people. If you're factoryless, just bring enough mins for a space dock or whatever.
2a. If you see that one of your worlds has low concentrations of a mineral, send it a bunch of that mineral so you can actually build things there. This is a more common problem than you'd think.

3. Set up your default build queue as:
...Factories up to 1020
...Mines up to 1020
...Max Terra up to 1020
...Defenses up to 100
Add other crap in as necessary.
3a. keep your research at 0% except in dire emergencies. You get more tech in the long run by building factories first and researching later.

4. Keep files from each game in a separate directory. Make a .txt file in Notepad to keep track of information like enemy race designs, homeworlds, any diplomatic agreements, etc.
Make plans several years in advance and write them down.

Beyond these basics, the main issue is discipline. Don't get lazy. Don't get involved in too many games to keep track of. It's better to play one or two games and do well than to play ten and get exterminated in all of them. Very Happy


[Updated on: Fri, 08 August 2003 02:08]

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Fri, 08 August 2003 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

Thanks for the help!

Coyote wrote:

Set up your default build queue as:
...Factories up to 1020
...Mines up to 1020
...Max Terra up to 1020
...Defenses up to 100


My default queue is:

Min teraform up to 1020
Facs up to 2
Mins up to 2
Facs up to 10
Mins up to 10
Facs up to 1020
Mins up to 1020
Defenses up to 1020
Max teraform up to 1020

I do this because I think that it helps build up my worlds quicker. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Overall, I am trying to do what you are advising but I am not having much success Sad . Perhaps I just need some practice.



"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Fri, 08 August 2003 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

You should always build factories before mines -- you'll get more mines and thus more minerals and thus more factories in the long run. You'll automatically build the mines you'll need when you run out of Germanium. It's important to supply colonies with Germanium to get their factories ramped, but once they're up and running with 100k pop and a big pile of G you're all set.

As far as minimum terraforming, you can put that after factories and before mines. You'll actually terraform faster if you build factories first, since they'll pay for themselves in 7 years on average (depending on settings).


[Updated on: Fri, 08 August 2003 22:52]

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Sat, 09 August 2003 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

Muchas gracias, Senor.

It is strange how the numbers work out in this game, but I guess that's one of the chalanges.



"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Sat, 09 August 2003 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Evlixardre is currently offline Evlixardre

 
Civilian

Messages: 3
Registered: July 2003
Hatterson wrote on Fri, 08 August 2003 19:39

Thanks for the help!

My default queue is:

Min teraform up to 1020
Facs up to 2
Mins up to 2
Facs up to 10
Mins up to 10
Facs up to 1020
Mins up to 1020
Defenses up to 1020
Max teraform up to 1020




If you are going to have this set up for your yellow planets (or reds your holding till you have tera tech) id suggest making 2 production queue.

The first one being Coyotes since its the best for developing green worlds and wont mess you up with building mines before factories and the minimal resorce ramp loss caused by it through compound effects.

The 2nd which is optional for yellow/red planets is;

Factories 100
Mines 100
Min Terraform 100
Max Teraform 100
Factories 1020
Mines 1020
Defences 100

I use this at times since you can develop a yellow/red (and low green <5%) planet up to 5% value (assuming it could be a 100% world, which the computer does). The % for development doesnt actualy kick in till you have made the world green and at such time you do the queue will automaticly max teraform till the planet allows more factories and mines to be build then will teraform again. This will reduce pop loss in the long run and once your planet can support the full population that you droped on it to develop it to a green you can then change it over to the default queue or if forgoten it will develop slower then a regular green but will still develop.

Edit: I cant spell very well Embarassed Rolling Eyes


[Updated on: Sat, 09 August 2003 23:15]

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Mon, 11 August 2003 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

Using your queue, it seems that I am wasting resources building mines when I should be doing minimum terraforming. I can understand the viability of building factories as they pay for themselves, but I do not understand mines because they will be almost useless until the planet is green. If my mines cost 3 resources each and I build 33 of them then I will have spent enough resources to terraform 1%. If I had spent the resources on terraforming I would be cutting my population losses every year and the growth (or lack of loss) would compound.

Perhaps you can explain your suggestion a little better to me, I am just not understanding it now.

Edit: fixed spelling


[Updated on: Mon, 11 August 2003 10:22]




"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Mon, 11 August 2003 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Hatterson wrote on Mon, 11 August 2003 16:22

Using your queue, it seems that I am wasting resources building mines when I should be doing minimum terraforming. I can understand the viability of building factories as they pay for themselves, but I do not understand mines because they will be almost useless until the planet is green. If my mines cost 3 resources each and I build 33 of them then I will have spent enough resources to terraform 1%. If I had spent the resources on terraforming I would be cutting my population losses every year and the growth (or lack of loss) would compound.

Perhaps you can explain your suggestion a little better to me, I am just not understanding it now.



You want a lot of factories, but if you don't have germ on your planet than build mines, and they provide more germ again so you can start building your factories again ...

I usually don't terra reds/yellows untill I can't build/use more factories. On a red planet the population doesn't die as fast as on a green that is overcrowded. Once you get the world turning green your pop starts dieing faster so you need to have plenty of resources to cranck up the terra fast and you need factories for that.

Best is to drop enough germ on the planet so they can build their max amount of factories, than let them switch to terra, that way they can skip minebuilding.

And of course it also depends on the mineral concentrations ...

mch

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Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? Tue, 12 August 2003 02:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zapan is currently offline Zapan

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: June 2003
Location: Burlington, Ont.

I hate to disagree with Micha but I think his strategy for reds/yellows is misleading.
He's absolutely right that the overcrowding deaths are worse than the hab induced deaths but not all yellows will terraform to a small green. Therefore you won't always experience overcrowding if you terra first. unless ofcourse you're in the habit of colonizing with 300,000 colonists.
In my opinion its a question of style. HG races on a medium yellow would be well advised to terra first to get the pop growing. HPs with low resource per colonist settings would be better off building facts since they could care less if a few people die.

just my two cents.

-Zapan



If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.

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What to do with red/yellows? (Re: Is there a good Stars! tutoral out there? - ) Tue, 12 August 2003 09:12 Go to previous message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Zapan wrote on Tue, 12 August 2003 08:06

I hate to disagree with Micha but I think his strategy for reds/yellows is misleading.
He's absolutely right that the overcrowding deaths are worse than the hab induced deaths but not all yellows will terraform to a small green. Therefore you won't always experience overcrowding if you terra first. unless ofcourse you're in the habit of colonizing with 300,000 colonists.
In my opinion its a question of style. HG races on a medium yellow would be well advised to terra first to get the pop growing. HPs with low resource per colonist settings would be better off building facts since they could care less if a few people die.

just my two cents.

-Zapan


Hm, ok, my post was a little black/white, there are shades of grey in between depending on how red a planet is and how green it will become ... Below is what I do ...

Obviously if you will never get it green or if it is a deep red with just 5% green or so than don't bother doing terra, just drop 300% of people (more pop doesn't generate more resources) on them and let them build factories and mines. This is of course if you can't remote mine it but still want some of minerals, late game every kT is usefull, while you have plenty of pop and have no problem with overcrowding the planet (IS are very good at this use of reds). It will gererate some resources but not much, well that actully depends on your economy settings of course.
At some point a fort+gate might come in handy if the planet has a strategic postion, and defenses, although limited to 10 so not of much use.

For small yellows that will become big greens it is sometimes indeed better to terra first (especially if once they turn green they become 10-15% or better immediately), and again drop 300% pop and let them do their job. Depending on how fast I can terra and how much extra pop I have I sometimes take off pop once the planet is a small green to limit the overgrowth deaths.

And indeed a difference for HP and HG, a HP builds factories first, no matter if the planet is green, yellow or red. Well that's from my limited experience as HP ...

mch

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