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Unusual Game Concept Fri, 25 July 2003 04:20 Go to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

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Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

Would anyone be interested in playing a game with all new and possibly useful starting ships/starbases??

For instance starting every one with a stargate on their starbase (or more) and a tiny complement of ships that can never be replicated? (like hero ships almost.. Jump Gate freighters, or PRT mixed ships that can't be duplicated by anyone ever..)

Would this be of any interest to anyone to play a game with?



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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 29 July 2003 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

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Starting Ships[ 26 votes ]
1. I like the original ships 0 / 0%
2. Maybe a small change would be nice.. 4 / 15%
3. Maybe just 1 Crazy ship per player might be fun 4 / 15%
4. A few Crazy ships could be interesting... 12 / 46%
5. I LOVE CRAZY CRAP MAKE 'EM ALL CRAZY! 3 / 12%
6. This is a stupid idea never ask this question again. 1 / 4%
7. I'd like to say it sounds fun, but I don't want anyone to know I think that 2 / 8%
8. I have an unlisted opinion 0 / 0%

Since no one seems brave enough to say anything I'll just put this poll up.

Also I could just make or alter normal starting ships to minor degrees.. Like change the Stalward defender's guns from Laser/torpedo combo to a torpedo/torpedo or laser/laser combo.. I don't HAVE to do anything super crazy.. I'm just wondering if anyone might find that interesting... I'm just trying to see what public opion is on the matter of altered starting ships/starbases..


PS the changes are a one shot deal, meaning I can't change anything at all once the game's made.. it requires nothing unusual on your parts... Well not to play but.. I'm just saying that incase someone's thinking it.

-Out


[Updated on: Tue, 29 July 2003 06:39]




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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 29 July 2003 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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The Stalwart Defender could have organic armor and two IS miniguns, maybe.

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 29 July 2003 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

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Well.. I can do the "IS miniguns", the organic armor... Well. J patch won't let me give ships parts that you can build but need tech for. So.. Inorder to give it better armor it would have to be something slightly special I'm afraid. As in, some other PRT or MT.. Else it just strips the slot.
I could however give it Fielded Kelarium.. And that would be perfectly fine. It's got the same hit points as Organic and with the added bonus of 50 hit points of shields! (plus it costs you nothing to have this.. Well okay it's no where near as light but that's probably not a really big deal.. Is it?)

But yeah IS guns would be an easy thing to pop onto a Stalwart Defender. Could even call it the "Inner Strength Defender" which is funny since IS wouldn't get one. Wink But that's just how it is..

Any other suggestions? PS.. I'm not bound by hull types in anyway.. So you don't have to limit your ideas to the default hulls. This applies to Starbases as well if anyone wants a change, or a twist on one of them. (the "only if you have the tech" rule and such only applies to components, not hulls or components with different PRT's than you (this includes MT as an NPC-PRT).)
And thanks for the idea Coyote..


[Updated on: Tue, 29 July 2003 22:19]




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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

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What kind of toppings would you like?[ 14 votes ]
1. Peeping Tom 0 / 0%
2. Shadow Transport 1 / 7%
3. Long Range Scout 1 / 7%
4. Armed Probe 0 / 0%
5. Shadow Sleuth 0 / 0%
6. Teamster 1 / 7%
7. Stalwart Defender 1 / 7%
8. Swashbuckler 2 / 14%
9. Santa Maria 0 / 0%
10. Pinta 0 / 0%
11. Mayflower 0 / 0%
12. Spore Cloud 0 / 0%
13. GadFly 2 / 14%
14. Cotton Picker 0 / 0%
15. Potato Bug 0 / 0%
16. LIttle Hen 1 / 7%
17. Change of Heart 1 / 7%
18. Speed Turtle 0 / 0%
19. Starbase 3 / 21%
20. Accelerator Platform 1 / 7%
21. Porthole to Beyond 0 / 0%
22. Starter Colony 0 / 0%

And those are all the starting things I can edit to whatever spesifications.. Feel free to vote on what you'd like most to see changed in some way.. (Or anyway at all.)

Note: MT ships are not listed because although I've got control over that.. I personally would have to be hosting the game to get the MT given ships to come out differently.. Real shame but true..

Vote now please.



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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Gadfly with a deterraforming bomb. Since it's rare to get these, they might as well be useful.

Starbases with 32 each of alpha torps and blue lasers, 48 mole shields and 16 Tritanium armors, and max battle computers.

Armed probe with a minelaying pod instead (the only one WM gets!) - maybe a Heavy layer just to be different.

Teamster and Swashbuckler with no armor -- better fuel and gating efficiency-- & fuel tanks galore.

Shadow Transport and Shadow Sleuth with an antimatter generator instead of cloak.

Starter Colony decked out with 12 each of alphas, blue lasers, shields, and armor, and a battle computer (or MAYBE, if it's not too unbalancing, a driver 5 to keep the enemy on his toes). Porthole to Beyond (using normal stargate) and Accelerator Platform similarly.


[Updated on: Thu, 31 July 2003 03:42]

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 07:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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Gadfly with a deterraforming bomb. Since it's rare to get these, they might as well be useful.
++++++
Do able
------
Starbases with 32 each of alpha torps and blue lasers, 48 mole shields and 16 Tritanium armors, and max battle computers.
++++++
Do able
-------
Armed probe with a minelaying pod instead (the only one WM gets!) - maybe a Heavy layer just to be different.
+++++++
Actually JOAT and WM get it, but I could just make it a SD minelayer, it would be more useful that way. But yes that's do able.
-------
Teamster and Swashbuckler with no armor -- better fuel and gating efficiency-- & fuel tanks galore.
+++++++
The armor really weighs it down.. I agree it's a burden not a boon as is. I can do that as well.
-------
Shadow Transport and Shadow Sleuth with an antimatter generator instead of cloak.
+++++++
Now your thinking! (Can do!)
-------
Starter Colony decked out with 12 each of alphas, blue lasers, shields, and armor, and a battle computer (or MAYBE, if it's not too unbalancing, a driver 5 to keep the enemy on his toes).
+++++++
I could just do that and make it a... um.. Star Dock.. But yeah Packet 5's are easy for that.. If you want we can do a test game before Autohost.. A) you and I could test balancing of that or B) I could gen a game for you to test it yourself with.
-------
Porthole to Beyond (using normal stargate) and Accelerator Platform similarly.
+++++++
To be perfectly honest. I can't give the Porthole a better gate, it would be rejected.. I could make it a starbase and give it a packet launcher with a stargate... or.. something.. The Accel Plat I can give an IT gate to but I can't make it's launcher any better it would be rejected..

Great suggestions! And all of them are within reasonable capability!

One thing I thought would be.... Intersting to observe. Was to stick either an Any/300 or Any/800 or maybe even an 100/any gate, on the starbase to allow for interstellar trade.. Mind you that IT wouldn't get it. Their first orbital is forcably overriden with a 100/250 gate and the PP Starbase's first orbital is overridden with a Packet Launcher 5.. (MD5).. I can't change this. Plus Since all gates are accessable to IT, the extra slot would be erased.. But it's not a big deal since overgating within mass limits is just fine for them..

Anyone opposed to the idea of 100/any gates on your HW? and whatever light sheilding and weapons I can get in. (Once you upgrade your HW you can never get that original starbase back, plus you can't make anymore, or modify the design.. One shot deal.)



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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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Do you have Stars! 2.70i?[ 17 votes ]
1. No 6 / 35%
2. Yes 11 / 65%

If anyone's curious I can explain why I asked that question. I've got a good reason.

[Updated on: Thu, 31 July 2003 08:14]




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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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PS feel free to suggest ANY hull changes you'd like to any of the ships you'd like me to tweak.


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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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When you ask about hull changes do you mean changes to the default hulls? For example:
BB: change the 6xElectrical to 6xElectrical/Mechanical
DD: change 2xArmor to 2xArmor/Shield
FF: add new "Super-FF" hull with 100dp integral Armor

Or do you mean something else?

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
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I'm pretty sure he means chaning say, the Potato Bug to use a Maxi-miner full of alien miner pods...

Use a different hull, not change what the hull is.

To change what the hull is, you'd all have to have a different exe.



- LEit

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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LEit wrote on Thu, 31 July 2003 18:44

I'm pretty sure he means chaning say, the Potato Bug to use a Maxi-miner full of alien miner pods...

Use a different hull, not change what the hull is.

My guess too.

Quote:

To change what the hull is, you'd all have to have a different exe.

Wouldn't you not also need a different exe for the starting ships? IOW no AH game if yes ... Sad

mch

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
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Micha wrote on Thu, 31 July 2003 12:55

Wouldn't you not also need a different exe for the starting ships? IOW no AH game if yes ... Sad



I think it'll need a different exe to start the game. Players might be able to play with the normal exe because he's not chaning parts, just starting ships. It may even be possible to use the standard exe to host after the first turn.



- LEit

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Captain Maim wrote on Thu, 31 July 2003 04:58


Starter Colony decked out with 12 each of alphas, blue lasers, shields, and armor, and a battle computer (or MAYBE, if it's not too unbalancing, a driver 5 to keep the enemy on his toes).
+++++++
I could just do that and make it a... um.. Star Dock.. But yeah Packet 5's are easy for that.. If you want we can do a test game before Autohost.. A) you and I could test balancing of that or B) I could gen a game for you to test it yourself with.



a Space Dock would be much better, yeah.. ^_^

Quote:


Porthole to Beyond (using normal stargate) and Accelerator Platform similarly.
+++++++
To be perfectly honest. I can't give the Porthole a better gate, it would be rejected.. I could make it a starbase and give it a packet launcher with a stargate... or.. something.. The Accel Plat I can give an IT gate to but I can't make it's launcher any better it would be rejected..



I meant just the weapon and armor loadout. Of course giving them space docks instead of orbital forts would be cool. By the way the Porthole to Beyond uses a normal stargate anyway. I just mentioned it as opposed to a massdriver.

Quote:



Anyone opposed to the idea of 100/any gates on your HW? and whatever light sheilding and weapons I can get in. (Once you upgrade your HW you can never get that original starbase back, plus you can't make anymore, or modify the design.. One shot deal.)


Sounds interesting.


[Updated on: Thu, 31 July 2003 16:52]

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Thu, 31 July 2003 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OOMatter is currently offline OOMatter

 
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Captain Maim wrote on Thu, 31 July 2003 04:58


Anyone opposed to the idea of 100/any gates on your HW? and whatever light sheilding and weapons I can get in. (Once you upgrade your HW you can never get that original starbase back, plus you can't make anymore, or modify the design.. One shot deal.)


The problem with this would be if any IT races start near your HW they would know exactly where your HW is and all it's stats.



Because OOMATTER

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Fri, 01 August 2003 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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True. Though normally they'll know anyway as soon as you build a stargate, if they haven't scouted it by then.

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Fri, 01 August 2003 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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OOMatter wrote on Thu, 31 July 2003 19:47

The problem with this would be if any IT races start near your HW they would know exactly where your HW is and all it's stats.

No need to start close. With 100/any gates they'll know EVERY HW in the second turn. Too big advantage IMO.
BR, Iztok

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Fri, 01 August 2003 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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The IT does NOT get the 100/any.

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Fri, 01 August 2003 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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[Having bad internet problems... Just an FYI. For my reply speed.]

WOW what a spike in perticipation! This is GREAT!
And now to catch up on questions and psudeo questions or just stuff I felt like addressing...

-Question 1: When you ask about hull changes do you mean changes to the default hulls?

-Answer: No Coyote's right, I mean like say changing a Peeping Tom to say.. A frigate, or Nubian or heaven forbid a death star.. Not as in altering the composition of a hull. And yes, that would require the HOST to have an altered exec. To have altered hull compositions (and having modded client execs couldn't hurt either. I do that stuff too but not on Auto Host. Only for fun with a friend or two. Smile )


-Question 2: "Wouldn't you not also need a different exe for the starting ships? IOW no AH game if yes ..."

-Answer: Yes it does require a differnt exec for the starting ships to be generated into a game but that's it.... Or.. Whatever. I wrote some stuff that lets me plug and play as it were. (hate to say it but I'm not sure what IOW is, new to me...) Anyway, the way it pans out is: Step 1: you guys tell me what you want, Step 2: I write some stuff and mod my exec.. Step 3: You send me your races in 2.7i format (that's what I write for, 2.7i is not picky like J patch) Step 4: I generate game (that's when and ONLY when all them ships get implemented.) Step 6: I send to Ron.


-Question 3: I think it'll need a different exe to start the game. Players might be able to play with the normal exe because he's not chaning parts, just starting ships. It may even be possible to use the standard exe to host after the first turn.

-Answer: not really a question but yes it does take a different exec (that's my worry not yours.) No it doesn't take a different to run or play.. nope not changing parts charictorists.. And I wouldn't have asked about this if I hadn't tried using an unmodded exec to play with.. Heck if anyone wants me to gen a game just so you can see EXACTLY what IS possible (example game).. I can.. Basically your right and your speculations are right. Though once it's made it's just like anyother game as far as Stars is concerned.. I mean.. assuming I don't screw up and add something into the designs that will get stripped.. (But I test all my stuff first so that's not something you guys need to worry about.)

-Question 4: Of course giving them space docks instead of orbital forts would be cool...

Answer/Reply: Not a question again.. But I just thought I'd point out that in an AI test game where I added a 100kt space dock (using Stars Ed 1.2) to the orbital fort. The AR AI took extreme advantage of this and became an alternate reality version an HE... Humans likely won't act this way, but I'm just saying that's just something to imagine.. If needed I COULD even make the starter colony have a ship hull. Of course orbitals won't go there.. But an alpha nubian could be funny (random idea there, 1st hull 1st possiblity, a joke really).. ( and no it won't move.) (Note: no tech can be gained from starbase killing so MT toys would never get spread around if I used them.)

-Question 5: 1. No need to start close. With 100/any gates they'll know EVERY HW in the second turn. Too big advantage IMO.
AND
2. The problem with this would be if any IT races start near your HW they would know exactly where your HW is and all it's stats.


-Answer:
Q2. That's possible but only if they are within 250ly which is unlikely unless the map is really small.. or.. something... I could just make sure the map size is larger enough that HW's won't be within scan range. I like big maps anyway.. Elbow room is GOOD....

Q1. Weren't you paying attention when I addressed this?? Coyote was, he's got the right answer.. But just for your benefit..
Here's a little reminder plus some additive explaination: Starbase use of twin gates = (and this I did with some EXTREMELY Extensive testing [I do that a lot actually it's how come I can even offer this stuff to you guys.]) I
...




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Re: Unusual Game Concept Fri, 01 August 2003 07:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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A Jump Gated Freighter[ 12 votes ]
1. Small Freighter 70kt 1 / 8%
2. Medium Freighter 210kt 1 / 8%
3. Large Freighter 1200kt (mass >100kt) 1 / 8%
4. Super Freighter 3000kt (mass>100kt) 4 / 33%
5. Priveteer 250-750kt 1 / 8%
6. Rogue 500-2000kt 1 / 8%
7. Galleon 1000-3000kt (mass>100kt) 2 / 17%
8. An Armable Hull DD BC CC... 0 / 0%
9. Other 0 / 0%
10. I don't want this option Enabled 1 / 8%

Here's a suggestion for the companion to the 100/any gates.. somethig to REALLY trade with others..
Most probable hull types include: Peeping tom & Long Range Scout (or to be more "fair") Santa Maria, Pinta and it would probably be kind to make the IT's Mayflower into a jump gate freighter too.. And since HE doesn't have that.. They could get 3 freighters made from their spore clouds.. (not as bad as you think since they can only ship TO their HW and TO other's HW (at least at first.) They ARE hyper expansion after all... Might make a good bargening chip... I dunno.. Their freighters could be better or worse than the rest. (All changes affect ALL ships of that name.. easy way to think of it. Different name, different possible hull design.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IT spotting other IT worlds at start has happened to me before.. Like I saw my neighbor's 2nd world and HW but my HW was too far for him to see. It happens.. We just agreed to be friends... A similar thing may transpire in this.. I just don't know.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Keep them ideas coming! When you guys have settled on just what you want and if you really do want to try this out.. I can put all the ship designs together.. Even post pictures of them for your review and then maybe we can give it a try eh?


[Updated on: Fri, 01 August 2003 08:00]




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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 05 August 2003 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Captain Maim wrote on Fri, 01 August 2003 12:10

(hate to say it but I'm not sure what IOW is, new to me...)


In Other Words,

mch

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 05 August 2003 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Captain Maim wrote on Fri, 25 July 2003 10:20

Would anyone be interested in playing a game with all new and possibly useful starting ships/starbases??

For instance starting every one with a stargate on their starbase (or more) and a tiny complement of ships that can never be replicated? (like hero ships almost.. Jump Gate freighters, or PRT mixed ships that can't be duplicated by anyone ever..)

Would this be of any interest to anyone to play a game with?


I find this an interesting concept, but next to all the technical stuff I have doubts about if this is really word to dedicate a whole game to ...
Imagine the WM happily starting with his Armed Probe as a Super Mine layer, or the SS player eagerly starting with instead of his Shadow Transport a minimorph full of tachyons (just making up some stuff). Then in year 2410 both designs get destroyed ... what is there left that makes the game different from others?

I really like the idea of having some "hero ships" but they will get destroyed and that might well be very much sooner than later ...

Also the designs would be a bit more interesting if they had some long lasting use. True almost any mine laying design would be of very high value to a WM, but designs like a with IS weap/shield equipped Stalwart Defender lose their usefulness very fast, it is a much better design than the normal Stalwart of which probably nobody EVER has build a second one, while now you have a useful design but you CAN'T build a second one. Sad

And if I understand correctly weapons are always limited to the starting techlevels (except the MT weapons?) so in firepower the designs will be outdated in year 2405 ... (except for the WM of course).
So best guess would be to provide good utility ships to the races, with items they otherwise wouldn't get ( = not limited in tech), and so useful that it is worth losing a design slot for at least half of the game.

Right now the only things I can think of that I would really want and have longer use are OA, robber barrons or tachyon ships ... (maybe a speedbump mine layer but I think I would soon enough be wanting to free that slot except when being WM.)

mch

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 05 August 2003 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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As Micha argues, this concept is much less interesting if the races are unable to produce more of these kinds of ships. But this would, I assume, require playing with a hacked exe.

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Re: Unusual Game Concept Tue, 05 August 2003 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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[Internet Fixed]

Well, not your execs dont' have to be hacked at all.. Nope not a single one of them.. The original idea I had was like to make the potato bugs super OA's and... Well just make stuff that's useful late or.. at least mid way into the game.. Like making HW starbases tough enough to stop anyone (except a packet) from killing them until the like the 50's or..... Later...

If you guys even want I can turn one of the ships into a 2nd starbase for your HW or 2nd worlds...

Personally I agree, I'd prefer to design ships with heavy weapons and armor to make them worth that slot.. For at least half the game or so.. Like HW SB's could be Deathstars... (Yes I know how happy AR's would be).. But it would last you for a GOOD long while armed with MT weapons... I mean it's nothing to an Armageddon starbase of course.. But it'll keep you safe until fleets of Battleships and such are prowling the stars..

Honestly it's upto you guys.. I mean.. Do you want me to build like WM weapons on ships that WM can't get like... Well..
Here's a list of unique ship counts.. 1 being 1 design, 2 being to designs, etc.... And of course this is ships that no other race has. The only races that have NO wholey unique ship designs are PP and IS. Esspecially IS.

Maybe the question of what would make this concept "Game worthy" is what I should be asking? I'll make a poll for what the ships should be.. (General Catagories)



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Re: Unusual Game Concept Wed, 06 August 2003 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
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What ROLE should the new ships have?[ 13 votes ]
1. Hero\Flag ship[s] (tough utility warships that'll last for decades of usefulness) 5 / 38%
2. Limited use ships, not much better than they are 0 / 0%
3. Extra Starbases for HW and 2ndary worlds. (A starbase that's really a ship) 2 / 15%
4. Hero AND Extra Starbases 1 / 8%
5. Just make ARM LRT give super OA's 0 / 0%
6. Utility ships, cross PRT stuff.. useful for a limited time only 2 / 15%
7. I want the WORKS! (Hero, Extra SB, Super OAs...) 2 / 15%
8. I have an unlisted opinion 1 / 8%

Wonder if I'm polling too much?? Of course this IS mostly a public interest topic more than anything else.. So.. I guess polls are just natural for that.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 August 2003 00:02]




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