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Re: The Ring 2 Thu, 20 April 2017 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Asmodai is currently offline Asmodai

 
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If there is place - i`d like to play.

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 21 April 2017 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
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Asmodai wrote on Thu, 20 April 2017 00:49
If there is place - i`d like to play.



I think there is plenty of room, but you need to message neilhoward with the following

Quote:
You may PM me your show of interest with subject "Xiao", explain to me (1) your level of experience, (2) any concerns or considerations for final rules and game setup process, (3) type of races you might want to play, (4) if you have not played on SAH or another game I have hosted then include a brief outline of your whole-game strategy and how it fits your intended race type into this particular game setup. Please restrict your message to 300 words. The game setup and rules discussed so far are reasonably complicated. Adherence to a similarly complicated set of rules and competing in such a setup requires some degree of ability. Your show of interest is to some extent a test of this ability.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 26 April 2017 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

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collating

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 29 April 2017 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
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Sorry for continuing delays. Monday will be my first day off in more than a month. My schedule was a solid 7x 12 hour shifts per week, but sometime about two weeks ago started getting 2-3 shifts extended to 16-18 hours each week. My schedule will get a little more sane shortly; I should be working less than 65 hours/ week after next week. I will be taking time off to setup the game and should have plenty of time to host.

vmanuel and platon79 have agreed to help with hosting.

I have 7 responses to show of interest.

There is a strong pull for no communications allowed. Hosts will start disseminating information some time after 2440. This will include facts (score, resource, # planets?) about those top players pulling away from the pack every x years, and may include scuttlebutt concerning wars, tech, accidents, etc. We can leave random events on, and ban catching the MT. I am testing some expanded subsidy of AR and revised nerfing for IT, Joat, IS. I will get a final rules to Manic for veto shortly, then send an email based survey to players that pm me their email to allow a vote for some small subset of rules.

About remapping: I intend to move many planets after the remap in order to guarantee a most regular planet draw. I will use Craebild's Stars! Overall Planet Habitability and Race Econ Calculator to set values for number of greens and average value of greens. Divide galaxy with lines from midpoint between HWs through center point for slices. I will focus insuring planet draw in descending order on (1) within 81.5ly of HW, (2) within 162.5ly of HW, (3) within 81.5ly of core planet closest to HW, (4) every other planet in that players slice. The objects of planet draw insurance focus in descending order (A) #planets based on average density, (B) number of greens, (C) average value of greens, (D) mineral concentrations. (A1), (A2), (A3) will each have a variance very close to zero. (B1), (B2), (B3) will each have a variance <.15 from Craebild's Stars! Overall Planet Habitability and Race Econ Calculator value. (C1+C2+C3) together will have a variance <.15 from Craebild's Stars! Overall Planet Habitability and Race Econ Calculator value. Everything else I intend to eyeball and probably phone in.
More later.

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 29 April 2017 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
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You work on our behalf is very much appreciated.

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 29 April 2017 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
8 show of interest by pm

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 02 May 2017 05:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 998
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"neilhoward wrote:"
Monday will be my first day off in more than a month. My schedule was a solid 7x 12 hour shifts per week, but sometime about two weeks ago started getting 2-3 shifts extended to 16-18 hours each week. My schedule will get a little more sane shortly; I should be working less than 65 hours/ week after next week. I will be taking time off to setup the game and should have plenty of time to host.


If it is not an illegal chinese coal mine you are working in with the choice of starvation otherwise... perhaps you should change your life?

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 02 May 2017 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
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Yes, "coal" mine.
Show of interest via pm: 10.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 03 May 2017 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
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Why is this called ring 2? The last one was called Free For All right? I think it should have been called Monkey, since it looks an awful lot like a sequel to Goat. That would make this ring 3 then, though it is more like a bullseye, or in this case a rooster's eye. Kudos to James for coming up with the idea iirc. Wrapping up final rules now (finally).

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Re: The Ring 2 Thu, 04 May 2017 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 438
Registered: May 2009
Quote:
Why is this called ring 2?


A lack of creativity and thought when creating the title. Rolling Eyes

Call it whatever you want, just as long as we play Very Happy

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 05 May 2017 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
Universe and Game Parameters
Galaxy remapped to a bullseye comprising an outer ring and inner core. HWs distributed equidistant along outer ring. Number of planets per player as close to 35. Density within core and ring is closest to dense (~2.5 stars/10kly^2). Dimensions of structure determined by (1) 10x #players stars in core at 2.5 density, (2) gap width 100 ly less than core radius, (3) sum of number of stars that would populate gap if 2.5 density and actual number of stars in game provides radius of outer ring via the square root of number stars over density, all over pi and rounded to the nearest multiple of four (if remapped to large) or 5 (if remapped to huge).

Acc BBS is on. No PPS.
Random Events Off.

Race Restrictions and Penalties
IS: 50 points set to defenses.
IT: 100 points set to defenses.
HE: No -F. Settings 10/10/10 at least (away from -F settings).
Joat: 50 points set to defenses, No NAS or enough points left over (in addition to first 50) to remove NAS.
Above: Each percent >17% MPGR=+10 RWP set to defenses, e.g. 18% (9% HE) adds 10 points to defense.
CA: A number RW points set to defenses and MPGR such that the growth rate may be increased 4%.
All: Weapons expensive, Con not Cheap.

Starting Scrap
Starting Ships will be zerohacked. Weep.
Players start with a cache of up to 42 scrappers (DNA Scanner, Beam Deflector, RadRam FFs for chance of up to level 6 in all techs). Host will use Jrc3 modded with Stars Editor and the zerohack module to set the tech level, resource cost, and mineral cost of ship hulls and components to zero. Because SAH does not use modded EXEs, all modded ships will need transfer tags before genning on SAH. The ships are queued in 2400, given orders to transfer in 2401 (necessitating change in player relations), given orders to transfer back in 2402, and game files are distributed/loaded on SAH at year 2403. If a race takes NRSE, their scrappers get DDL7s instead of RadRams. There are no special restrictions on how you choose to use your scrapper frigates.
Number of FF by PRT:
Joat = 12
IT, CA = 18
IS = 24
All others = 42
AR may trade 21 FF scrap for 21 SS scrap (QJ5/Wolv).
Everyone gets a choice of 3 additional starting ships based on race ability and modules present on zerohacked starting ships. Weep more.

# Higher
Tech Fields
Available
6 | 49 74 87 93 97 98 99 99 99 99
5 | 49 74 86 93 96 98 99 99 99 99
4 | 47 72 85 92 96 98 99 99 99 99
3 | 44 69 82 90 94 97 98 99 99 99
2 | 38 61 75 84 91 94 96 98 99 99
1 | 25 44 58 68 76 82 87 90 92 94
------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Tech Trading Events

Schedule
800 GMT every day through 2436. After 2436 the game can switch to 3 days per week upon request of any 3 players. After 2472 the game can switch to 2 days per week upon request of any 5 players.

Everyone starts with two delay requests, and those surviving through 2460 get a third. Requests may be used to delay no longer than two regularly scheduled gens, and may be split at host's discretion.

Communication and victory conditions:
No pregame alliances.
No communication. Show me an email or pm from another player, and maybe I will let you run their race into the ground.
Hosts will start disseminating information sometime after 2440. This will include facts (score, resource, # planets?) about those top players pulling away from the pack every ~5 years, and may include scuttlebutt concerning wars, tech, accidents, etc.

Single player victory. All other players must be set to enemy. Fleet setting to attack "nobody" or "everyone" only.

Victory is determined by a vote. 100% of the votes required to win. Each race still in the game gets one vote.

Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features"
Repair after gating, chaff, ISB trumps IT gate scanning, split fleet dodge are allowed.
Mine damage dodge and mine damage allocation are allowed.
Do not cause target list overload: do not cause more than 100 of your fleets to be at any one location.
Do not cause battleboard overflow: do not send more than 75 of your tokens into a battle (merge happens after battle).
Do not put alpha or beta torps on ships with more than two engines.
No explicit ban on minimum damage, but the last two should be adequate to nerf it.

AR exception: Alternate Reality PRT may build up to 6 cheap colonizers (Colonize without Colonizer), anytime up to 2415.

Anything else on the Known Bugs (JRC3) - Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features" list is disallowed. See the list in the Must Know section of the forum.

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 05 May 2017 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Quote:

Galaxy remapped to a bullseye comprising an outer ring and inner core. HWs distributed equidistant along outer ring. Number of planets per player as close to 35. Density within core and ring is closest to dense (~2.5 stars/10kly^2). Dimensions of structure determined by (1) 10x #players stars in core at 2.5 density, (2) gap width 100 ly less than core radius, (3) sum of number of stars that would populate gap if 2.5 density and actual number of stars in game provides radius of outer ring via the square root of number stars over density, all over pi and rounded to the nearest multiple of four (if remapped to large) or 5 (if remapped to huge).

Is it possible for you to generate a test universe (without moving around planets for hab matches) so we have a visual of the gap between the inner and outer rings, the gap between the outer and map edges, the average distance between HWs (use AI races) along with other factors you pointed out above?

Joats should get the same amount of scrappers that an IS gets.

What's with 2336 and 2472?
Would prefer a slowdown to 5 turns a week around mid 2430s (if reqd) and a further slow down to 3 turns around 2470s.
If we get to 2500, then 2 turns.
Anything becomes way a tad slow, considering you finish a turn between 2430-70 within 1-2 hours max and 2470-2500 within 2-3 hours.

Would like anonymous races.
However a small request, please keep the player order and the position around the clock in the same order.
Switch the player order if required.
It's not critical, but it does save some headaches for the starting few decades.








I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 05 May 2017 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
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Messages: 207
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Location: A Rock
neilhoward wrote on Fri, 05 May 2017 13:40
Universe and Game Parameters
...
Everyone gets a choice of 3 additional starting ships based on race ability and modules present on zerohacked starting ships. Weep more.
...


I do not quite understand this. I can spec out 3 ships @ those tech levels? Or get 3 more scrappers?

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 06 May 2017 04:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
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Lets say race file deadline 0800 Zulu 15th May.

Additional starting ships must conform to PRT & LRT capabilities. Available ship hulls and components are those the race would be able to build if all techs expensive and expensive start at x checked, as well as Alpha Drive 8, Radiating Hydro-Ram Scoop, Possum Scanner, Wolverine Diffuse Shield, Carbonic Armor, Yakimora Light Phaser, Beta Torpedo, Black Cat Bomb, Robo Miner.

I will send links for a web survey and a mockup game to each fellow that has responded to the show of interest.
The mock game will be based on the number of players that have responded to the show of interest.
The survey will allow you to vote on schedule revision. The above proposed schedule is a baseline. I strongly recommend a faster paced schedule, but understand not all are able to accommodate this.

Number of scrap ships per PRT are based on number of starting levels for econ PRTs.

Races will be anonymous, and displayed on game page as Player 1, Player 2, etc.
There will not be a public list of players.
Player number will not correspond to geographic position for reasons of setup logistics which will be fully documented.

a prospective player wrote
Hi Neil,

I like the idea of sharing information to all players concerning the top players pulling away from the pack, but I'd like to make some comments for you to consider.

I'm okay with disclosing:

1) # of planets, but not the locations of any of those planets.
2) # of Starbases, but not the locations of the starbases.
3) # of warships, but not the location, the type, the design, how much fuel they have, how much damage it sustained etc.
4) # of tech levels, but not the exact tech levels of a particular field.
5) # of resources, but not which planets are strongest or weakest.
6) Score

Basically, any information the 'public player scores' normally provides is okay with me. When giving out information, the rule of thumb should be 'less is more'. Be careful not to spoil a player's surprise attack that may have taken more than a decade to plan when giving out information. Think twice before disclosing tactical or strategic information about players, as it could potentially ruin a game. Thanks.


This is quite in line with what my thoughts. TBQH the less I do the better. I am certainly not going to do scouting work for players. The intent here is not even to keep leading players from pulling away from the pack, but to give notice that it has happened. I am only interested in slowing any runaway victory to something closer to the speed that would occur in a game with communications but no cooperation. Victor might have ideas about injecting flavor and flare to your reports (he has done this entertainingly in several previous games). We will lock down some specific standards for reporting with the forthcoming survey.

Send me PM about any and all proposed rule changes and they will be considered. Send me any and all proposals about tightening specifics about any rules that might be too vague and they will be considered. I want to send out email survey for vote on final rules within 24 hours. If you have not sent me your game email by pm yet, now is the time.



[Updated on: Sat, 06 May 2017 16:34]

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 06 May 2017 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
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Above: Each percent >17% MPGR=+10 RWP set to defenses, e.g. 18% (9% HE) adds 10 points to defense.

Why ? They are already all more expensive then they should. Dont know why supporting HP races.



ccmaster

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 06 May 2017 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raindancer is currently offline Raindancer

 
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I played in a game 2005/2005 called Rings. IIRC that one was a team game with two outer rings. Two members of the team started in the outer ring and one member in the inner ring.. and no one in the center section. So this might be Rings 4. Smile Or higher as it might have been used a few other times.. but the ring idea is not new...

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Re: The Ring 2 Sat, 06 May 2017 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
HP would be very hard to make win in this scenario. A faster race will do better. We will have a vote by email soon.
I will have a verbose explanation of proposed rules in ~12 hours when I get back from work.
Until then, here is some info on number of stars per player:

#P*Ideal...........Real/#P
08*35=280.....288/08=36
09*35=315.....288/09=32
10*35=350.....360/10=36
11*35=385.....384/11=34.9
12*35=420.....384/12=32

Raindancer wrote on Sat, 06 May 2017 13:46
I played in a game 2005/2005 called Rings. IIRC that one was a team game with two outer rings. Two members of the team started in the outer ring and one member in the inner ring.. and no one in the center section. So this might be Rings 4. Smile Or higher as it might have been used a few other times.. but the ring idea is not new...

Was that the game with two sets of broken rings (staggered gaps) and empty middle?

#P.Core Radii.Gap Width.Ring Width.Distance Between HW
08.....320..........220..........204..........~490
09.....340..........240..........188..........~460
10.....355..........255..........230..........~450
11.....375..........275..........230..........~430
12.....390..........290..........215..........~410


[Updated on: Sun, 07 May 2017 16:12]

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Re: The Ring 2 Sun, 07 May 2017 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 438
Registered: May 2009
Excellent, we are getting close.

Quote:
Everyone gets a choice of 3 additional starting ships based on race ability and modules present on zerohacked starting ships. Weep more.


Quote:
Additional starting ships must conform to PRT & LRT capabilities. Available ship hulls and components are those the race would be able to build if all techs expensive and expensive start at x checked, as well as Alpha Drive 8, Radiating Hydro-Ram Scoop, Possum Scanner, Wolverine Diffuse Shield, Carbonic Armor, Yakimora Light Phaser, Beta Torpedo, Black Cat Bomb, Robo Miner.


Interesting idea. So one could choose to get 3 Yak DDs with AD8 engines to start the game, even though they wouldn't have yak or AD8 tech? Or an AR could choose 3 mining ships with the Robo Miner?

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Re: The Ring 2 Mon, 08 May 2017 03:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
ManicLurch wrote on Sun, 07 May 2017 16:46
So one could choose to get 3 Yak DDs with AD8 engines to start the game, even though they wouldn't have yak or AD8 tech? Or an AR could choose 3 mining ships with the Robo Miner?

Yes and yes. Also, regular starting ships get upgrades to Alpha Drive 8, Radiating Hydro-Ram Scoop, Possum Scanner, Wolverine Diffuse Shield, Carbonic Armor, Yakimora Light Phaser, Beta Torpedo, Black Cat Bomb, & Robo Miner; still the same ship type (e.g. Stalwart Defender) and component type, but better tech.

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Re: The Ring 2 Mon, 08 May 2017 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
talkingbologna is currently offline talkingbologna

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 43
Registered: November 2016
Location: Bologna Heaven
neilhoward wrote on Fri, 05 May 2017 16:40
Universe and Game Parameters
CA: A number RW points set to defenses and MPGR such that the growth rate may be increased 4%.

What does this mean?

neilhoward wrote on Fri, 05 May 2017 16:40
Universe and Game Parameters
# Higher
Tech Fields
Available
6 | 49 74 87 93 97 98 99 99 99 99
5 | 49 74 86 93 96 98 99 99 99 99
4 | 47 72 85 92 96 98 99 99 99 99
3 | 44 69 82 90 94 97 98 99 99 99
2 | 38 61 75 84 91 94 96 98 99 99
1 | 25 44 58 68 76 82 87 90 92 94
------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Tech Trading Events

What is this? It looks like the tech trade by invasion spread.
Edit: I mean, I know it's not, but it's not tech trade by scrapping numbers either.


[Updated on: Mon, 08 May 2017 21:32]

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 09 May 2017 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
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Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 207
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Location: A Rock
Where do we send race files?

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 09 May 2017 04:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
Quote:

CA: A number RW points set to defenses and MPGR such that the growth rate may be increased 4%.

To play CA, you may not have MPGR (Max Pop Growth Rate) higher than 16%. Further, you must leave enough RW (Race Wizard) points set to defenses that the MPGR could be increased by 4%.

Quote:

# Higher
Tech Fields
Available
6 | 49 74 87 93 97 98 99 99 99 99
5 | 49 74 86 93 96 98 99 99 99 99
4 | 47 72 85 92 96 98 99 99 99 99
3 | 44 69 82 90 94 97 98 99 99 99
2 | 38 61 75 84 91 94 96 98 99 99
1 | 25 44 58 68 76 82 87 90 92 94
------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Tech Trading Events

From https://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Guts_of_Tech_Trading

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 09 May 2017 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1109
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
11 prospective players have responded appropriately to my request for a show of interest.
I have emailed a final rules survey to all players, received 7 responses.
Further questions or comments should be conducted via email.


[Updated on: Tue, 09 May 2017 20:34]

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 10 May 2017 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Hi Neil,

While I appreciate your efforts in setting up the game, I'm not comfortable with discussing general rules via individual mails only.
Not sure where we signed up for that.

Especially so, when you are proposing rules that weren't in the previous games.
Taking these discussions to a 1:1 has a high chance of a flawed game concept or an uneven game, as GTP turned out to be (fun though it might be).

> Above (IS, IT, HE, JOAT): Each percent >17% MPGR=+10 RWP set to defenses, e.g. 18% (9% HE) adds 10 points to defense.
I agree with CC and also ask why penalise HG races?
I would not want this condition.

> Starting Ships will be zerohacked (improved components of same type).
What's the point of giving a further starting advantage? Races with more starting ships get an advantage.
I would not want this condition.

>Everyone gets a choice of 3 additional starting ships based on race ability and modules present on zerohacked starting ships.
It's intriguing and tempting, but this is also giving a starting boost to a race and would help HP races who would rather spend early resources into building factories rather than ships.
I would not want this condition.

>Hosts will start disseminating information sometime after 2440. This will include facts (score, resource, # planets?) about those top players pulling away from the pack every ~5 years, and may include scuttlebutt concerning wars, tech, accidents, etc.
I don't want information to be shared by the host.
With no communications or allies, this is essentially a pitchforking step where remaining players stop attacking each other and band together against the top races.
Even if I'm not a top race, If I got to know this information, I would stop attacking my neighbour if HIS neighbour is #1 and move my ships to hamper the #1 race..
The difference between the source and timing of information makes a big impact.
If I found out by my own scouting, it would only be an individual effort. However if this was discovered by a host initiative, that would coordinate timings of actions between all races, resulting in a very effective pitch fork.




[Updated on: Wed, 10 May 2017 00:33]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 10 May 2017 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
talkingbologna is currently offline talkingbologna

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 43
Registered: November 2016
Location: Bologna Heaven
1A
2C
3A or B: No one would be foolish (skilled?) enough to try any race that far in the RW hole.
4B
5A (I assume you mean the 42 scrappers to be zerohacked, and I'm all for whatever makes least work for host).
6: A only if everyone gets 3, otherwise B.
7B
8: I don't want anyone to run away with a lead, but I agree that it should be our scouting that provides this information. Shoots me in the foot, I suppose, as I haven't really mastered the art of scouting yet, but this should be the natural way of things.

I thought all this stuff was already figured out.

As to Neil's explanations to my above post, thank you for the clarification.


[Updated on: Wed, 10 May 2017 01:59]

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