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The Ring 2 Thu, 23 March 2017 16:37 Go to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
I want to play in another ring game. I like the settings we had in the last game:

https://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=5 524&start=0&rid=1316

Though I am open to modifying the communication rules. The last game was no communication period. How about, communication is allowed by ingame messaging only, and each message must be to all players. So you can negotiate a border, but it will take a few turns to do so and everyone else will know about it. Also note I want to leave this rule: Quote:
Single player victory. All other players must be set to enemy. Fleet setting to attack "nobody" or "everyone" only.


Or we can leave the setup no communication at all.

Universe and Game Parameters
Galaxy remapped to a bullseye comprising an outer ring and inner core. HWs distributed equidistant along outer ring. Number of planets per player as close to 35. Density within core and ring is closest to dense (~2.5 stars/10kly^2). Dimensions of structure determined by (1) 10x #players stars in core at 2.5 density, (2) gap width 100 ly less than core radius, (3) sum of number of stars that would populate gap if 2.5 density and actual number of stars in game provides radius of outer ring via the square root of number stars over density, all over pi and rounded to the nearest multiple of four (if remapped to large) or 5 (if remapped to huge).

Acc BBS is on. No PPS.
Random Events.

Race Restrictions and Penalties
IS: 25 points set to defenses.
IT: 150 points set to defenses.
HE: No -F. Settings 10/10/10 at least (away from -F settings).
Joat: No NAS, 25 points set to defenses.
CA: A number RW points set to defenses and MPGR such that the growth rate may be increased 4%.
All: Weapons expensive.

Starting Scrap
Players start with a cache of up to 42 scrappers (DNA Scanner, Beam Deflector, RadRam FFs for chance of up to level 6 in all techs). Host will use Jrc3 modded with Stars Editor and the zerohack module to set the tech level, resource cost, and mineral cost of ship hulls and components to zero. Because SAH does not use modded EXEs, all modded ships will need transfer tags before genning on SAH. The ships are queued in 2400, given orders to transfer in 2401 (necessitating change in player relations), given orders to transfer back in 2402, and game files are distributed/loaded on SAH at year 2403. If a race takes NRSE, their scrappers get DDL7s instead of RadRams. There are no special restrictions on how you choose to use your scrapper frigates.
Number of FF by PRT:
Joat, IT = 12
CA = 18
IS = 24
All others = 42

# Higher
Tech Fields
Available
6 | 49 74 87 93 97 98 99 99 99 99
5 | 49 74 86 93 96 98 99 99 99 99
4 | 47 72 85 92 96 98 99 99 99 99
3 | 44 69 82 90 94 97 98 99 99 99
2 | 38 61 75 84 91 94 96 98 99 99
1 | 25 44 58 68 76 82 87 90 92 94
------------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Tech Trading Events

Schedule
1400 GMT every day through 2430. After 2430 the game can switch to 3 days per week upon request of any player. After 2460 the game can switch to 2 days per week upon request of any player.

Everyone starts with two delay requests, and those surviving through 2460 get a third. Requests may be used to delay no longer than two regularly scheduled gens, and may be split at hosts discretion.

Communication and victory conditions:
No pregame alliances.
communication tbd

Single player victory. All other players must be set to enemy. Fleet setting to attack "nobody" or "everyone" only.

Victory is determined by a vote. 100% of the votes required to win. Each race in the game gets one vote.

Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features"
Repair after gating, chaff, ISB trumps IT gate scanning, split fleet dodge are allowed.
Mine damage dodge and mine damage allocation are allowed.
Do not cause target list overload: do not cause more than 100 of your fleets to be at any one location.
Do not cause battleboard overflow: do not send more than 75 of your tokens into a battle (merge happens after battle).
Do not put alpha or beta torps on ships with more than two engines.
No explicit ban on minimum damage, but the last two should be adequate to nerf it.

AR exception: Alternate Reality PRT may build up to 6 cheap colonizers (Colonize without Colonizer), anytime up to 2415.

Anything else on the Known Bugs (JRC3) - Player Exploitable Bugs / "Features" list is disallowed. See the list in the Must Know section of the forum.

Note, I want to play, so we do need a volunteer to set the game up.



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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 24 March 2017 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

I'm interested.

I'm not sure about communications though, as it's tough to limit it to ingame comms.
I would like anonymous races / race names and let the host or a volunteer act as the mail box for players, for say one mail forward each turn at a fixed time?
(Old school spy drop style Very Happy)
The host will have to make sure that the players don't use distinctive ship names though (Like I use SeX SFXs and MiL Mine layers).

IS needs more points to defence, imo.
Joat should either get 25 points or NAS. I always feel it's penalised too hard.

The slowdowns should happen after 2450/75, if possible.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 24 March 2017 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I'm interested, but I foresee a complication.

I will be on holiday, without possibility to play, for two weeks in late June, and it is extremely unlikely we will be past 2460 by that time.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 24 March 2017 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

I'll be fine with a 2 week break.
I just want the tempo between turns to remain quick and fast for the early years.
As long as it takes only 1-1.5 hours a turn (which 90% of turns will before 2450) + weekends to plan out bigger changes, we should be able to keep those quick turns up to churn out atleast 5-7 turns a week.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 24 March 2017 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware
put me down for playing

Pop me an email when we get enough players

LittleEddie

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Re: The Ring 2 Fri, 24 March 2017 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
I am sure taking a 2 week break in June won't be an issue.

Quote:
The slowdowns should happen after 2450/75, if possible.


The slowdowns aren't automatic. I just have in the rules the soonest someone can ask for a slowdown.

Quote:
IS needs more points to defence, imo.
Joat should either get 25 points or NAS. I always feel it's penalised too hard.


These things are negotiable, though I don't feel the IS penalty needs to be higher. As far as Joat, it is penalized because taking NAS gives them huge points and they don't sacrifice anything for it really. Plus they are one of the better economic races and have other advantages.

So for the moment, I don't want to change the penalties. Penalizing IS more would also have the added consequence of helping SS.

Quote:

I'm not sure about communications though, as it's tough to limit it to ingame comms.


The players can make a final vote on communications.

Quote:

I would like anonymous races / race names and let the host or a volunteer act as the mail box for players, for say one mail forward each turn at a fixed time?
The host will have to make sure that the players don't use distinctive ship names though (Like I use SeX SFXs and MiL Mine layers).


Well I don't want to give the host that much work. If we have to resort to that, maybe we need to just either allow communications, or ban all communications.



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Re: The Ring 2 Mon, 27 March 2017 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Looks like we have a few players:

ManicLurch
LittleEddie
Nmid
craebild
Rolf

I am hoping for 8 players or more. If we can get 3 more, we can get started.

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 28 March 2017 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
Interested

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 28 March 2017 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1211
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
No-comm games have a habit of producing runaway players, that can't be stopped. May I suggest a bit of a safeguard against such an occassion? Let game host make public just game "Score" number for each player each 5th or so game turn.

BR, Iztok

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 28 March 2017 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dlrichert is currently offline dlrichert

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1

Messages: 136
Registered: January 2012
Location: US
I like the competition and game settings. If vote goes for no comms or limited comms then please sign me up.

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 28 March 2017 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dlrichert is currently offline dlrichert

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1

Messages: 136
Registered: January 2012
Location: US
iztok wrote on Tue, 28 March 2017 14:52
Hi!
No-comm games have a habit of producing runaway players, that can't be stopped. May I suggest a bit of a safeguard against such an occassion? Let game host make public just game "Score" number for each player each 5th or so game turn.

BR, Iztok


I don't like that idea unless only top players revealed otherwise pick on the bottom ranked.

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Re: The Ring 2 Tue, 28 March 2017 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Updated player list:

ManicLurch
LittleEddie
Nmid
craebild
Rolf
Backblast
dlrichert


The option for the host to reveal the ranking is interesting. I do agree that only the top rankings should be revealed. While we wait for another player or two, lets vote on these communication options:

No communication
Communication only through in game messages to all players
Host revealing top 3 player ranks every 5 or 10 turns.

The last option can be combined with either of the first two.

Let me know your preference if you have one.

Also, we do need a volunteer to set the game,up, which involves a bit of work moving planets and setting up the scrappers.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
ManicLurch wrote on Tue, 28 March 2017 19:11
No communication
Communication only through in game messages to all players
Host revealing top 3 player ranks every 5 or 10 turns.

The last option can be combined with either of the first two.


I'm good with any "none" or "public-only" comm option. It's nice to be able to rib the other players and such.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 991
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

HI,

how it looks with the -f setting for HE , is it still needed ?
How the playes see it ? Do you have problems with a -f HE ?

Know a player who would like to play one 😃

ccmaster

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 991
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

Hi,


Random events on kills games.


ccmaster

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
ccmaster wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 10:49
HI,

how it looks with the -f setting for HE , is it still needed ?
How the playes see it ? Do you have problems with a -f HE ?

Know a player who would like to play one 😃

ccmaster


I can see why you would want to play -F HE in this game, the settings are good for it. Which is why I think we need to keep the ban on -F HE.

Sorry.


Quote:
Random events on kills games.


Random events can unbalance a game, especially in a game that has slow tech or requires a key tech expensive. These rules have random events on simply because the last game had them on. It would be a good idea to turn random events off in a game with weapons forced expensive. If a mystery trader visited some players, but not others and gave out w tech, it could completely change the game.

So unless a majority of the players object, I think we should change the rule to no random events.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 991
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

Hi,

what you think of me playing - f HE , never had that idea.

Will the Popgrow reseted after generate the univers ? Should be so.


ccmaster

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi,

I would prefer:

Communication only through in game messages to all players
Host revealing top 3 player ranks every 5 turns, with "score" listed as percentage of highest score (that way it is visible if one player is running away with far higher score than the rest). Those top scores should not start being listed until some years into the game, though, as rankings can fluctuate a lot during the early years, and do not necessarily reflect who is most powerful

With weapons required to be expensive, an MT that gives out tech to some players could indeed unbalance the game, so I would prefer no random events.

I have come to think of a possible complication for me, though. I will be getting a new PC next week, so I will have to set up my programs (including Stars!) on that new PC, and I haven't tried getting Stars! to work on Windows 10 Pro before. It is supposedly possible, though. Whether that will be a problem depends in part on how soon the game starts, of course, as well as how much trouble I have getting Stars! to run.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

ManicLurch wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 22:00


I can see why you would want to play -F HE in this game, the settings are good for it. Which is why I think we need to keep the ban on -F HE.

Sorry.


Quote:
Random events on kills games.


Random events can unbalance a game, especially in a game that has slow tech or requires a key tech expensive. These rules have random events on simply because the last game had them on. It would be a good idea to turn random events off in a game with weapons forced expensive. If a mystery trader visited some players, but not others and gave out w tech, it could completely change the game.

So unless a majority of the players object, I think we should change the rule to no random events.



#SorryNotSorry? Rolling Eyes

No -f HE for CC, but it should be open for other players Twisted Evil


[Updated on: Wed, 29 March 2017 13:39]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5


1. I want no random events (Re:MTs), but I do like the dynamic nature of wormholes, especially in a ring universe.
We can easily use the honor system + it won't be tough to enforce "no meeting the MT" rule.

2. I vote no comms. In a game with no allies, you can't really do much against the enemy on the other side of the ring universe.
However, I'm open to the host announcing who's the 1st to get the 1st / 5 / 10 planets in the mid or first to get 25 planets overall or 10k/25k resources etc.
It would be nice if used in addition to my next suggestion.

3. What I really want in a stars game.
Vanquishment / Conquering.
If you kill conquer enemy HW + all planets in a 181 ly radius from the HW, then you should be able to conquer the race. (or 75% of an enemy race, but that's tough to quantify hence the LY range from HW)

In the previous game, I didn't kill enemies because it wasn't worth the time and effort + I was able to focus more on research and expansion.
Letting us conquer enemies would give a huge incentive for players to aggressively push and attack neighbours instead of the regular research to end game meta.

When something like this happens, the host announces this to the entire universe.













I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

craebild wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 22:46

(snip)
I have come to think of a possible complication for me, though. I will be getting a new PC next week, so I will have to set up my programs (including Stars!) on that new PC, and I haven't tried getting Stars! to work on Windows 10 Pro before. It is supposedly possible, though. Whether that will be a problem depends in part on how soon the game starts, of course, as well as how much trouble I have getting Stars! to run.


It's not at all tough to get Stars running using a Virtual Machine.
You'll require about 1-2 hours and about 1gb of downloading to set it all up.

If you already have a windows xp key from one of your old laptop backs / machines, that would be perfect.





[Updated on: Wed, 29 March 2017 13:42]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
nmid wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 19:42
craebild wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 22:46

(snip)
I have come to think of a possible complication for me, though. I will be getting a new PC next week, so I will have to set up my programs (including Stars!) on that new PC, and I haven't tried getting Stars! to work on Windows 10 Pro before. It is supposedly possible, though. Whether that will be a problem depends in part on how soon the game starts, of course, as well as how much trouble I have getting Stars! to run.


It's not at all tough to get Stars running using a Virtual Machine.
You'll require about 1-2 hours and about 1gb of downloading to set it all up.

If you already have a windows xp key from one of your old laptop backs / machines, that would be perfect.




I don't have a Windows key on hand that isn't an OEM key, and getting an OEM key to run on a virtual machine might prove impossible (and would be a violation of the license).

There is a DOSBoxStars download here on Autohost, I an thinking of trying to get that to run. As an alternative, as far a I remember from earlier discussions, Stars! will run under Wine, so a virtual machine running Linux and Wine might be an option. I will have to see what I can get set up.

It doesn't matter to me how much I have to download, my internet connection is 100 Mbit/s both directions, flat rate.

I could also see whether Stars! will run in compatibility mode in Windows 10 Pro, as far as remember Windows 10 Pro has some pretty extensive compatibility capabilities (better than Windows 7 Pro, at least). If that works, then that is of course the best solution.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
craebild wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 12:52

I don't have a Windows key on hand that isn't an OEM key, and getting an OEM key to run on a virtual machine might prove impossible (and would be a violation of the license).

There is a DOSBoxStars download here on Autohost, I an thinking of trying to get that to run. As an alternative, as far a I remember from earlier discussions, Stars! will run under Wine, so a virtual machine running Linux and Wine might be an option. I will have to see what I can get set up.

It doesn't matter to me how much I have to download, my internet connection is 100 Mbit/s both directions, flat rate.

I could also see whether Stars! will run in compatibility mode in Windows 10 Pro, as far as remember Windows 10 Pro has some pretty extensive compatibility capabilities (better than Windows 7 Pro, at least). If that works, then that is of course the best solution.


Stars! under wine largely works fine. Occasionally I have to blow out the stars.ini file in C:\windows ( ~/.wine/drive_c/windows )because it enters a state where it won't load for some reason. I have not yet figured out the line in stars.ini that's causing this.

DOSBox works fine on Windows 10. I wasn't able to get it to run on 10 in any other method that I tried. YMMV.




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Re: The Ring 2 Wed, 29 March 2017 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
BackBlast wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 23:01

Stars! under wine largely works fine. Occasionally I have to blow out the stars.ini file in C:\windows ( ~/.wine/drive_c/windows )because it enters a state where it won't load for some reason. I have not yet figured out the line in stars.ini that's causing this.

DOSBox works fine on Windows 10. I wasn't able to get it to run on 10 in any other method that I tried. YMMV.



When you say you couldn't get Stars! to run any other way under Windows 10, was that under Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro ?



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: The Ring 2 Thu, 30 March 2017 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
craebild wrote on Wed, 29 March 2017 14:08

When you say you couldn't get Stars! to run any other way under Windows 10, was that under Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro ?


It's my son's system. Honestly I'm not sure which it is. I really didn't try that hard. Windows 10 is a system I have been avoiding.

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