Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » JOAT » Joat, the non-boring PRT
Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Fri, 30 April 2004 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Well, I think he is saying that he gets enough resources out of pop growth alone to get his PVTs in time to start moving pop, since he prefers HG settings in his races.

I would agree with that ok as a general statement.

With HP settings, and hopefully wide-hab, I would either be using medium freighters for the first and closest green worlds until my factories can get caught up and then move to PVTs, or I would start out with the tech 4 check box checked.

But, HEY!, I never play JOAT, so WHO CARES! Laughing
Angel



Nothing for now.

Report message to a moderator

icon7.gif  Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Thu, 30 June 2005 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
Ensign
Stars! V.I.P


Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

Well, here is one more (but not so new) design. I'd just finish on second place with that race (game "Lessons From the Past"):
Name: The Plutonians
PRT: JoAT
LRT: IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, LSP
G:0,24;4,16 T:-136;136 R:16;56 19%
1000
12-9-13
[ ] - no cost 1 kt less
12-3-13
Weap, Con - low
Other - high
I have no problem with resources or minerals all the game ... Nod



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Fri, 01 July 2005 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crr65536 is currently offline crr65536

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005
You didn't have problems due to LSP? Interesting. I had been under the impression that LSP is a much larger handicap than it seems because of compounding. It seems that it is being used to pay for higher mine efficiency, which it also seems everyone says is not worth the cost.

Of course, since you came in second place it obviously worked out fine for you Wink .

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sat, 02 July 2005 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

LSP only really delay's your growth but a turn or two. For a 15%(30%) growth HE only one turn's delay. For anyone else at 15% its almost exactly 2 turns. more if you have lower growth. With 20% growth its "theoretically" 1.44 turns, with is effectively 2 turns. if you're after a quick kill this might be a difference but for most games being 2 turns growth behind isn't that much of a disadvantage. Naturally everything else will be two turns behind too since pop is the measure for it all.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sat, 02 July 2005 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alter Ego

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 283
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany
HE is a special case in regard to LSP. PP and IT are the others. Having your population spread over two planets (one of them with possibly less than perfect habs) is a slight handicap in regard to growth. It does increase the negative effects LSP has. Ofc, an IT race can move most of the pop to the major planet. PP has a more significant problem...

Not sure if this is really relvant in a thread about JoaT.
Confused

Regards

AE



War does not determine who is right. Just who is left.
Bertrand Russell

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sat, 02 July 2005 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2740
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Hi,

crr65536 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2005 02:38

You didn't have problems due to LSP? Interesting. I had been under the impression that LSP is a much larger handicap than it seems because of compounding.


I have found that most often than not (PGR>16%, OBRM), my pop grows too fast for my colonizers and early movers to spread in a timely manner, causing an early slowdown. Razz

LSP tends to delay pop growth just about the couple turns I need to really start moving, so it does not hurt my JoaTs too much. Smile

Of course, if I found a better way to do things or take points from, I'd probably forget about LSP at all. If we were talking QS or duel, or living anywhere too crowded, LSP would be worse still...



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Fri, 23 February 2007 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003
Verker wrote on Sun, 09 February 2003 14:17



The Joat are by no means a boring PRT



well, 3 threads in 3 years sounds different.


Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Fri, 23 February 2007 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Carn wrote on Fri, 23 February 2007 06:13

Verker wrote on Sun, 09 February 2003 14:17



The Joat are by no means a boring PRT



well, 3 threads in 3 years sounds different.






They are a straightforward and easily understood PRT.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Fri, 27 June 2008 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
If JoaT started with 58 more RW points and received 0 points for NAS they would be ideal. Dammit. Wink

[Updated on: Fri, 27 June 2008 21:58]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sat, 28 June 2008 01:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1106
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
I think nas should cost joats points. Nas doubles the range of their [built] scanners. The special hulls more than make up for lack of pens on ships until late. By the time the missing planetary scanners would have come around, a single scout does the job pretty well. But what do I know? I still enjoy playing HP Joat.


By the time you realize how steep the curve is, you will be using five types of calculus to get to the market. You will then need three different calculators to perform what you once considered basic arithmetic.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sun, 04 December 2016 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1142
Registered: May 2008
I've had this sneaking suspicion for years that IS actually outgrows JoaT and thus that the NAS ban on JoaT is kinda unfair (in non-economic traits I'm pretty sure IS has the advantage; it's got the croby, tachyons, cheaper defences, anti-popdrop, and fuel transport up against cheap NAS-proof penscans and a jump start).

One of these days, when I'm finished my current test, I guess I'll have to try to test their econ strength. Figuring out how to do that will, of course, be a frickin' nightmare. But if it comes out the way I think, maybe we can overturn this tradition of hobbling JoaT.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sat, 14 January 2017 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

I agree with you saying IS is stronger than JOAT, but we as players generally focus on removing early game advantages a race has.
The inbuilt pen scanning of a JOAT is considered one such advantage that other players want to penalize.
The IS orgy (fleet growth) is something takes a lot of effort and time and can arguably stopped by other players.

I do wish though that JOATs were not penalised or the IS is penalised a few points to defences as well Smile



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Wed, 18 January 2017 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 997
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
nmid wrote on Sun, 15 January 2017 05:56
I agree with you saying IS is stronger than JOAT...


Mmmh, really?
If there were a duel between IS and JoaT, played by comparable players... my bet would be on the JoaT.

As a matter of fact, my bet would be on the JoaT against all PRTs.


My bet would only change when the game parameter changed to a bigger universe and a longer game.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Wed, 18 January 2017 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Entropicurity is currently offline Entropicurity

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 58
Registered: November 2007
Location: Northern Indiana, USA

I would tend to agree, as the IS really works well with stalling towards the end game and using diplomacy until it is absolutely necessary. In a duel that option isn't entirely available as aggression starts from the very beginning.

Jack of All Trades on the other hand are very well rounded start with pen scans (earlier "snapshot" of key planets), potential for superior starting tech advantage, a significant boost to all planet capacity, and as a result doesn't require a significant level of MM to get a very potent planet from the very beginning.

Toss in the fact that JoAT do not have a cost penalty for using weapons, it would go without saying that they'd not only have the better early and aggressive economy, but more affordable weapons to maintain it. It would be a tense match though, and I'd love to be proven wrong. Anybody willing to test this theory? Sadly I'm tied up and sadly by no means an "expert"! LoL



--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Thu, 19 January 2017 00:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1142
Registered: May 2008
- I was speaking largely in the context of PBEMs; duels are a bit different.

- @Entropicuity: IS do tend to be pretty decent in the pre-cruiser and cruiser eras, due to the Croby Sharmor. But yes, they do prefer the Nubian era to the BB eras for a few reasons: 1) by that point their orgies are fully built 2) beam Nubians aren't affected as much by the weapons premium 3) Nubians mean anyone can cloak anything to 98% by using overcloakers, amplifying the power of the IS Tachyon Detector.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Thu, 19 January 2017 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 901
Registered: August 2012
magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 05:40
- I was speaking largely in the context of PBEMs; duels are a bit different.

- @Entropicuity: IS do tend to be pretty decent in the pre-cruiser and cruiser eras, due to the Croby Sharmor. But yes, they do prefer the Nubian era to the BB eras for a few reasons: 1) by that point their orgies are fully built 2) beam Nubians aren't affected as much by the weapons premium 3) Nubians mean anyone can cloak anything to 98% by using overcloakers, amplifying the power of the IS Tachyon Detector.


Unless every diplomatic faction has an IS - in which case nobody bothers to cloak anything (aside from the free cloaks from MT items)

The expensive weapons are potentially crippling - particularly in terms of minerals...

Report message to a moderator

Re: Joat, the non-boring PRT Sun, 22 January 2017 10:32 Go to previous message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 903
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

Hi ,


Joat is still one of the flexiblest race and much stronger then a IS.
But I am sure if someone wants a handicap for IS he is free to take one.


ccmaster

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: JoaT HP
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Jun 26 18:36:40 EDT 2017