| MTs too random |
Thu, 18 February 2016 10:32  |
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 Question |
 | Petty Officer 3rd Class |
Messages: 48
Registered: February 2007 | |
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Not just them showing up either.
The free ships are nearly useless since you cant build more and are much worse than the free tech advances. The free tech advances are inferior to most of the MT parts (although genesis and jumpgate seems to be of limited utility). Mega poly shell is OP compared to Langston (20% jammer vs 5% jammer, takes up the same amount of shield/armor slots, yea, no, and the 500 DP vs 190 DP is silly).
Mega poly shell is useful all the way till end game if for no reason other than to stack as much armor/shield as possible combined with the penetrating scanner and jamming. But most of the MT parts have a limited useuflness period...that is complicated by the fact that when you get it is entirely random.
AM torps are useless when you have armageddons. Actually they are of neglible usefulness even if you have limited weapons tech because of their massive bio requirement. 60 DP per weapon slot (even with the range and accuracy) is only useful in the early cruiser era, it simply doesnt do enough damage to kill battleships or nubians.
Langston shell becomes obsolete pretty quickly beacuse its secondary effects are minor compared to the mega poly shell. Multi-cargo pod's main usefulness is getting bigger holds for large freighters, but hardly a game changer. Multi-function pod is an improved maneveuring jet but thats not very useful in the late game unless you are stacking heavy armor on beam battleships (since stacking armor generally gets you killed from missiles, and most ship designs are better off stacking shields).
I just cant help but roll my eyes when i tech levels 20+ and i get something like 2 MT scouts. Yay!
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| Re: MTs too random |
Thu, 18 February 2016 15:04  |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1205
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Question wrote on Thu, 18 February 2016 16:32The free tech advances are inferior to most of the MT parts
Say that in a game with live players, when MT gives you 4 levels in weapons tech
... and suddenly you can build twice as powerful ships as your opposition   
or
in late game you'd like to build your ultimate warfleet, but you can build only 2k Nubians, because you've previously spent lots of minerals to survive
... then MT comes along and gives you Alien Miner
or
rather large cost in your Nubian is the IS-10 engine, and you're struggling with counterdesign, because you don't have enough slots for all you'd need
... then MT gives you Enigma Pulsar.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Thu, 18 February 2016 15:50] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: MTs too random |
Mon, 23 May 2016 07:54 |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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The ships can be scrapped to try to trade yourself the MT parts. It's a pretty decent chance IIRC. As for the toys, here's my breakdown:
Not very useful:
The Multi-Cargo Pod has very limited use (the main trick is in making B-17 Bombers capable of surviving a mine hit). The Multi-Function Pod is useful until Prop 16 for ramscoop races, since they can't get Battleships to speed 2.25 without it. Mini-Morph hull is basically outclassed by the Galleon, but it is a bit cheaper and earlier.
Great in some games, bad in others:
The Alien Miner, Anti-Matter Torpedo and Genesis Device are all utterly useless unless you get to the endgame and minerals run dry. Then you'll be really glad to have your hands on them. The Genesis Device resets mineral concentrations, the Anti-Matter Torpedo is really cheap in minerals, and the Alien Miner bails you out if you took a 1-immune 2-narrow hab with OBRM (like many of the more notorious monster races).
Good:
The Langston Shell is great if you have Regenerating Shields, because it's not an armour component and as such the armour doesn't get halved while the shield does get +40%. It also fits on ships that the Mega Poly Shell doesn't, like the Super-Fuel Xport, making them capable of taking a mine hit.
The Multi-Contained Munition creates essentially the ultimate skirmisher when you stick a bunch of them on a BB. Unsnipable scanner/sweeper/ship-hunter/bomber/minelayer.
The Hush-a-Boom makes B52 bombers cheap and gateable, and also happens to be the closest thing to Smart Bombs that actually works.
The Jump Gate goes on all your freighters the instant you get it, because it makes ships able to gate cargo. This isn't "Wow" only because it comes so late into the game.
Wow:
The Enigma Pulsar goes on every warship and all ships if you're running NRSE. Battle speed is better than anything else ever fashioned. Best for NRSE non-WM, for obvious reasons, but the TGMS still can't match that awesome speed.
The Mega Poly Shell makes non-RS actually a good thing, and makes BBs far more viable in the Nubian era. Yay, free 74% jamming and 67% cloaking on every BB you build for the rest of the game! It and the MCM also just generically negate the disadvantage of NAS.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 May 2016 07:56] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: MTs too random |
Tue, 24 May 2016 08:12 |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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Loucipher wrote on Tue, 24 May 2016 17:55There was a ranking of MT parts created as far back as 1997, available here. It largely coincides with what you write. i am sure every Stars! player has his own ranking of MT parts, but some parts are genuinely better than others.
The sweet part about dealing with MT is that you can't choose what you get You can get something so good that it will make your pants wet, or something so useless that it will make your eyes wet I'm sure every Stars! player at least once prayed to the RNG with these words:
"Please... NOT ANOTHER D***ED SHIP!"
The Alien Miner's the one I'd vehemently disagree on. There are a fair spread of races (any IS, any HE, TT anything, and 3-wide anything) for which it's not just unspectacular but literally will never be built all game. It's worth that position for a 1-immune 2-narrow HG that's not IS, since it bails them out of getting slaughtered by AR, HP and 3-wide HG races when their mines run dry, but the number of races for which it's a shelf ornament should drag it down a bit more. The Genesis Device is more widely applicable.
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| Re: MTs too random |
Tue, 21 June 2016 09:19 |
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While the MT is fun in team games, in one on one games (or even diplomacy games**), it does spoil the game completely.
While there is always the chance that a monster is growing and feeding on a bunny or a newb on the other side of universe and you can't do anything as you can't reach him or you don't know, the MT is just another avoidable random variable.
In most of my games (seeing files after the game ended or as a non-playing host), I've realised that the game is generally decided in the 1st 20 years.
It's the 80-20 rule.
The remaining 80 odd years are a nice test of skill that does influence the final rankings, but in a no diplomacy game or fixed team games, it's only 20%, while the starting 20 years were 80% of the game results.
** edit
[Updated on: Tue, 21 June 2016 09:20]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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