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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » Slow boat to China (Relaxed pace, with comms, fairly vanilla game.)
Slow boat to China Wed, 11 February 2015 09:00 Go to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
Size depends on player count.
??/Dense/Distant
AccBBS (no other options)

Victory by common consent (no conditions set)

I'm tempted to try and generate a hexagonal universe with a hexagonal distribution of stars (at 37ly Twisted Evil ) - but depending on offers of universe building I might just send Ron a *.def (and it seems more appropriate to the vanilla theme somehow)

Running with the vanilla theme:
JoAT get no NAS
HE mustn't be -f
CA gets no TT, must have at least 280 clicks of hab*.

80 point penalty for JoAT
40 point penalty for IT
30 for HE

* i.e. no immunity and only 10 "narrower" clicks (since a click takes one point from each end of the hab bar) allowed overall.


Obviously penalties are open for discussion before the game is committed...

Schedule would be relaxed - after a reasonably paced start I'd expect it to drop to a couple of turns a week relatively soon, and maybe further if needed.

Obvious rules:
No pregame alliances
Standard disclaimer ( http://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=53 62&prevloaded=1&rid=1560&start=0)


[Updated on: Wed, 11 February 2015 09:03]

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 12 February 2015 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Asmodai is currently offline Asmodai

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 214
Registered: February 2012
Who will be hosting?

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 12 February 2015 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
Unless there is a better offer I will host and play.

Hence the "def file to Ron" comment, in the above case I will *not* generate the universe.

If anyone else wants to take on hosting and/or universe creation then I'm open to offers..

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 12 February 2015 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
franknorman is currently offline franknorman

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 20
Registered: June 2012
No point penalty for CA?

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 12 February 2015 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
I will volunteer for game generation and light hosting duties if no one else steps up.

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Re: Slow boat to China Fri, 13 February 2015 04:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jscoble is currently offline jscoble

 
Warrant Officer

Messages: 115
Registered: January 2008
Location: Cape Town
I might be interested.

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Re: Slow boat to China Fri, 13 February 2015 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
franknorman wrote on Thu, 12 February 2015 13:34
No point penalty for CA?


Total hab width of 280% is very expensive. For a CA, many of the points spent on that hab are wasted, and a lot more of those points are getting rather poor value for the money.

With that hab width, an 18% pgr CA with OBRM, NRSE, and NAS, unaltered (Humanoid) factories/mines, and all expensive tech is still 42 points in the red.


[Updated on: Fri, 13 February 2015 12:07]




What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Slow boat to China Fri, 13 February 2015 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
XAPBob wrote on Wed, 11 February 2015 08:00
Size depends on player count.
??/Dense/Distant


What is the target number of planets per player?



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Slow boat to China Sat, 14 February 2015 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
skoormit wrote on Fri, 13 February 2015 17:12
XAPBob wrote on Wed, 11 February 2015 08:00
Size depends on player count.
??/Dense/Distant


What is the target number of planets per player?


Good question - it needs to be small enough that the relaxed pace doesn't make the game last a decade in real years, and large enough that we don't start on top of each other.

Maybe the density should drop a little?

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Re: Slow boat to China Sat, 14 February 2015 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
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Suggested size ~ 20-25 planets/player?

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Re: Slow boat to China Sun, 15 February 2015 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 516
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware
OK, put me down as playing

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Re: Slow boat to China Wed, 18 February 2015 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
XAPBob wrote on Sat, 14 February 2015 08:31
skoormit wrote on Fri, 13 February 2015 17:12
XAPBob wrote on Wed, 11 February 2015 08:00
Size depends on player count.
??/Dense/Distant


What is the target number of planets per player?


Good question - it needs to be small enough that the relaxed pace doesn't make the game last a decade in real years, and large enough that we don't start on top of each other.

Maybe the density should drop a little?


Maybe. Depends what you want.

Spreading the homeworlds out allows more development time before conflict arises, which provides more flexibility in designing a viable race and (arguably) deepens the strategic play of the game (not only of the pre-conflict early game, but throughout the game).

Having a denser planetary setting increases the economic strength a player will wield when conflict arises, requires more MM for empire management, and adds complexity to the tactical considerations of fleet conflict.

If you want the development time and the (arguable) strategic depth but don't want the big econs, the big MM, and the tactical complexity, go with distant starting homeworlds and a lower density setting.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Slow boat to China Mon, 02 March 2015 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
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I'm thinking that small normal/dense is looking possible (130-160 worlds)

Need a couple more players though:
[XAP]Bob
jscoble
Little Eddie

...??? Various others even less committal...

neilhoward has offered to assemble the game and "lightly" host.

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 05 March 2015 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
platon79 is currently offline platon79

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 174
Registered: February 2004
Location: Norway
XAPBob wrote on Mon, 02 March 2015 16:06
I'm thinking that small normal/dense is looking possible (130-160 worlds)

Need a couple more players though:
[XAP]Bob
jscoble
Little Eddie

...??? Various others even less committal...

neilhoward has offered to assemble the game and "lightly" host.


Ok, since you are in need of players, and it will be a relaxed pace, I guess you can sign med up Very Happy

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 05 March 2015 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bretter is currently offline bretter

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 38
Registered: April 2006
Location: Texas

Please count me in on this one.

Any estimate on when you need race files?

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Re: Slow boat to China Sat, 07 March 2015 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
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Not yet, I'm happy not to be force the start of a game which is likely to last many many months...

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Re: Slow boat to China Sat, 07 March 2015 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dexy is currently offline dexy

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 20
Registered: July 2005
Location: Sweden
I am interested to play.

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Re: Slow boat to China Sat, 07 March 2015 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
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OK, we're busy enough to ask if anyone thinks the various racial penalties are reasonably balanced...

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Re: Slow boat to China Sun, 08 March 2015 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
[XAP]Bob
jscoble
Little Eddie
platon79
bretter
dexy


...??? Various others even less committal...

neilhoward has offered to assemble the game and "lightly" host.

Looking like Small dense?
"Wiki"
Wiki
     Sparse  Normal Dense  Packed
 Tiny    24      32     40     60
 Small   96     128    160    240
 Medium 216     288    360    540
 Large  384     512    640    910
 Huge   600     800    940    945


[Updated on: Sun, 08 March 2015 16:43]

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Re: Slow boat to China Mon, 09 March 2015 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
platon79 is currently offline platon79

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 174
Registered: February 2004
Location: Norway
XAPBob wrote on Sat, 07 March 2015 20:00
OK, we're busy enough to ask if anyone thinks the various racial penalties are reasonably balanced...

They seem ok to me

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Re: Slow boat to China Wed, 11 March 2015 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
franknorman is currently offline franknorman

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 20
Registered: June 2012
XAPBob wrote on Sat, 07 March 2015 20:00
OK, we're busy enough to ask if anyone thinks the various racial penalties are reasonably balanced...


Well, I'd prefer a different penalty for CA - I was wanting to play a non-monster one, that would be part of an alliance and provide Orbital Adjusters to it's allies, rather than be a go-it-alone economic superpower.
But that habitat requirement is incompatible with that - or with any decent race design at all, I opine.

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Re: Slow boat to China Wed, 11 March 2015 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
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Location: Alabama
franknorman wrote on Wed, 11 March 2015 15:28
XAPBob wrote on Sat, 07 March 2015 20:00
OK, we're busy enough to ask if anyone thinks the various racial penalties are reasonably balanced...


Well, I'd prefer a different penalty for CA - I was wanting to play a non-monster one, that would be part of an alliance and provide Orbital Adjusters to it's allies, rather than be a go-it-alone economic superpower.
But that habitat requirement is incompatible with that - or with any decent race design at all, I opine.



The prevailing wisdom is that the only way to balance CA is to implement restrictions that make it impossible to make a decent race design.

The super-wide habs restriction accomplishes the goal, but I agree that it really hurts the soul to make a CA with those habs.

What about a restriction on the PGR instead? Maybe "no higher than 14%"? In the very long run a CA with 14% PGR could perhaps outgrow any unrestricted race of a different PRT, but the CA would lag quite far behind for quite a long time, and would only survive to the end game via an alliance.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Slow boat to China Wed, 11 March 2015 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Since I am not playing, my opinion really doesn't matter here. But I will give it anyway Very Happy I don't think limiting the growth rate will work for CA in a game with normal communication. If I am the CA's neighbor and our habs work, I would instantly try to ally and protect them so I could use their OAs. A CA with only 14% growth can afford everything else they could possibly want. So they can be too dangerous still I think in a game with allies with just a growth rate restriction.

I like the idea of the minimum habs. It reduces the benefit of the instant terraforming and nerfs the race because of all the points it requires to get those habs. I think this idea just needs some tweaking. The CA hab requirements for this game use too many points I think, all it leaves is a -F design with no tech. So I think it should be eased up just a bit, not much though. I think this idea is on the right track for a CA handicap that slows down CA enough, but not too much that no one will use it.

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 12 March 2015 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
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If someone wants to suggest another penalty... I looked at a CA for another game with similar restrictions, although -f wasn't allowed either...

I'm not convinced it makes the CA weak *enough* in this environment. I put together a reasonable tech, ok LRT (engines will always be an issue, but docks everywhere to compensate), -f, CA with a tolerable growth rate (remembering that you get instaform planet value, so you after HW crowding you are probably going to start drawing ahead in terms of growth (that free TF and occasional permaforming does add up as well).

It takes some skill to start with, but with comms I think it's more than viable - as you say anyone wants to be your ally with those OAs, and you can just take their red planets... Ok, they'll not be ideal for you, but they're widely dispersed, and well protected...

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Re: Slow boat to China Thu, 12 March 2015 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Asmodai is currently offline Asmodai

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 214
Registered: February 2012
Sign me in as player.

Quote:
The super-wide habs restriction accomplishes the goal,
Without points penalties? I dont thinks so. I tested max hab CA race without immunities. As long, as it is -f, it works preety well. 2,5tech is completely attainable during RC so it can be ready for war as other -f. Super wide hab is not penalty - it only force them to build race differently. After spending big points on hab, they can get thouse points from other fields and compensate that hab.


Quote:
I like the idea of the minimum habs. It reduces the benefit of the instant terraforming and nerfs the race because of all the points it requires to get those habs.
Maybe. But this is the same as above - it gives them enough points to buy other things.

Without real in-points penalties - CA will not be penalized at all.


[Updated on: Thu, 12 March 2015 05:18]

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