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Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 13:44 Go to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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In another thread I have seen this:

m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 28 May 2014 20:22
Mod edit: please do not use profanity.
BR/NH


What or who is BR/NH?

I fully support that there is a red line between us about personal insults we should not cross and where an mod should intervene.

But "profanity"? Are we in a church? Has this become a religious site?

And this filter? What is the filter about?

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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This is the thread I don't want to clutter with a different discussion:
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&goto= 60383&rid=775#msg_60383

(From Ron: Mentioned thread post modified according to wishes of poster.)


[Updated on: Wed, 01 June 2016 21:00] by Moderator


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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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Altruist wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 03:44
In another thread I have seen this:

m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 28 May 2014 20:22
Mod edit: please do not use profanity.
BR/NH


What or who is BR/NH?

I fully support that there is a red line between us about personal insults we should not cross and where an mod should intervene.

But "profanity"? Are we in a church? Has this become a religious site?

And this filter? What is the filter about?


There is a word filter changing certain words to strings of # symbols. I circumvented it to use a certain vulgar word for feces (I forget whether it was the one beginning with CR or SH), followed by the suffix "ty", to describe the Lesser Racial Traits Ultimate Recycling and Bleeding Edge Technology.

neilhoward (who is apparently a mod - first I've heard of it) decided it would be a good idea to publically and officially humiliate me and publically and officially insult my intelligence. As such, he changed said adjective involving feces to "perfectly spectacular" and added the following to my post:

magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 28 May 2014 22:37
Mod edit: do not use profanity and do not think you are clever for getting around the filter.


He also edited the quotes others had made of that post with similar messages. BR are presumably his true initials.

I was having a relatively bad day yesterday, having been accused of paedophilia and child molestation over the Internet twice. This quite literally added insult to injury, and I broke down into full-on suicidality. It is very lucky I forgot I had a pencil case in my room, as otherwise I would quite possibly have shoved a pencil through my eye socket (my room has been very deliberately emptied of other sharp objects for this very reason).

As such, I think I've had my fill of these forums.



EDIT: Forgot to supply context. I'm clinically depressed. I've mentioned this elsewhere on the forums but some might have missed it.


[Updated on: Thu, 29 May 2014 16:38]

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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I didn't read the original thread before it was censored, but I'm not in favor of censorship.

Iirc, ccmaster/sally/Ron are the mods in this forum.
I don't think Neil is a mod here.

BR is best regards.. and magic, I agree that you should take a break from the forums.
As I consider you a friend, I'll suggest that you take a break from the net/other forums as well, if you are this raw.


Edit - Hmmm, when did Neil become a mod here?
Could we get a confirmation as to who censored the discussion? Does NH stand for NeilHoward?
If a mod is censoring replies to his posts, that's crossing a line... ESPECIALLY when it's this flimsy a reason to censor.

What's more is that censoring a thread to change the original tone/intent of a thread is just ridiculous and abuse of power.
What's going on here?


[Updated on: Thu, 29 May 2014 16:49]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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nmid wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 06:39
Edit - Hmmm, when did Neil become a mod here?
Could we get a confirmation as to who censored the discussion? Does NH stand for NeilHoward?
If a mod is censoring replies to his posts, that's crossing a line... ESPECIALLY when it's this flimsy a reason to censor.

What's more is that censoring a thread to change the original tone/intent of a thread is just ridiculous and abuse of power.
What's going on here?


I know it was neilhoward because he sent me the following PM:

Quote:
I have redacted your use of profanity. Please do not do that again.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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Altruist wrote on Thu, 29 May 2014 10:44


What or who is BR/NH?

I fully support that there is a red line between us about personal insults we should not cross and where an mod should intervene.

But "profanity"? Are we in a church? Has this become a religious site?

And this filter? What is the filter about?


I wrote BR/NH to indicate "Best Regards, Neil Howard". This is a convention I regularly use in communications.

I do not have particularly strong feelings about profanity, but I know that Ron does and this is his forum and his rules. The forum software now edits proscribed words that are deemed vulgar, and I used my personal judgement when I noticed that this mechanism was circumvented.

The full text of my pm to magic9mushroom follows:
I have redacted your use of profanity. Please do not do that again.

Quote:
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please press the Agree button at the end of the page. Note: By pressing the button you declare that you are over the age of 13. If you are 13 or under, please use this registration form.

Although the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of forum or the developers will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws.

The owners of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic for any reason.

Creation of multiple user accounts by one user is extremely frowned upon and may result in account banning and/or censure.


Ron Asked me to help moderate earlier this year, in part because of behavior expressly proscribed by the above agreement.

No insult was intended by my edit.






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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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nmid wrote on Thu, 29 May 2014 13:39

I don't think Neil is a mod here.

You recently wanted to argue that I was not the host of a game in which you played.
As I understand, Ron asked me to moderate because of the volume of complaints against certain forum users and the frequency of ego clashes and needlessly abusive arguments (something I have been guilty of on more than one occasion).
nmid wrote on Thu, 29 May 2014 13:39

If a mod is censoring replies to his posts, that's crossing a line... ESPECIALLY when it's this flimsy a reason to censor.

What's more is that censoring a thread to change the original tone/intent of a thread is just ridiculous and abuse of power.
What's going on here?


I do not see this as crossing a line, and more importantly neither does Ron.
The reason for the edit is clear: the forum rules were not only ignored, but willfully circumvented.

I apologize if anyone's feelings are hurt by my decision, this was not the intention. This forum should be a place where people feel comfortable, safe, and included. This is the reason for the rules which we have all agreed to when registering.

Best Regards,
Neil Howard





[Updated on: Thu, 29 May 2014 18:02]

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrvan is currently offline mrvan

 
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I am new here, please forgive me.

From what I can see, I am sorry to say that Neil seems to be overreacting. It makes sense to act against "obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening" or illegal behaviour. However, if someone says "my gosh" or "blimey", s/he is not deliberately circumventing (social) rules, but rather trying to express a strong sentiment while being delicate to those who take offense. In my view, replacing characters by asterisks or inverting characters in four letter words is similar to that. From what I can see, the people still active here have been around for a good number of years. If I am in a bar with my friends and I overdo the French, I expect that someone discretely asks me to moderate my speech, not that someone uses his authority to move against me. And frankly, if you think mentioning the names of bodily waste products is a crime against humanity, I wonder what you are doing on the Internet.

Neil, I have no clue about your status in life, but if I were mod I would much prefer a PM to ask for self restraint, or even a public message as a user stating that you are offended by said behaviour. Using your authoritative powers make people feel unwelcome, and frankly, making people feel unwelcome is the last thing a Stars! forum needs.

As said, I am new here, I don't know what private communication preceded the public communication, so it is quite likely I am missing the point completely, and apologies in advance for any misunderstanding on my part.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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If you are a mod, you have to be careful with the words you use.
You think I wanted to argue if you were a host? Based on a single post I made?
Your unwarranted and unnecessary choice of word insinuate something negative.
If you want to be an effective mod, you really need to relax... or you'll just end up creating more friction instead of stopping it.

As for crossing the line, changing the word crap to spectacular is fine?
Does that not change the entire darn meaning of the sentence?
It wasn't even evident as sarcasm.

When Ron or Sally or even CC censor a post, they either blank out the word or delete the post.
They most definitely do NOT change a word to one of their choice.

If you do not understand that was crossing the line, you really need to sleep on it and think about it once again.


[Updated on: Thu, 29 May 2014 18:19]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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Redactimg profanity is fine, changing the meaning of a sentence by 180 degrees is not. Find a synonym...

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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mrvan wrote on Thu, 29 May 2014 15:16
I am new here, please forgive me.

From what I can see, I am sorry to say that Neil seems to be overreacting. It makes sense to act against "obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening" or illegal behaviour. However, if someone says "my gosh" or "blimey", s/he is not deliberately circumventing (social) rules, but rather trying to express a strong sentiment while being delicate to those who take offense. In my view, replacing characters by asterisks or inverting characters in four letter words is similar to that. From what I can see, the people still active here have been around for a good number of years. If I am in a bar with my friends and I overdo the French, I expect that someone discretely asks me to moderate my speech, not that someone uses his authority to move against me. And frankly, if you think mentioning the names of bodily waste products is a crime against humanity, I wonder what you are doing on the Internet.

Neil, I have no clue about your status in life, but if I were mod I would much prefer a PM to ask for self restraint, or even a public message as a user stating that you are offended by said behaviour. Using your authoritative powers make people feel unwelcome, and frankly, making people feel unwelcome is the last thing a Stars! forum needs.

As said, I am new here, I don't know what private communication preceded the public communication, so it is quite likely I am missing the point completely, and apologies in advance for any misunderstanding on my part.


The word in question is one which the the forum owner has proscribed. It was not replaced by a different word like crap (which the forum owner does not take issue with), but was instead written to appear as the same word that would be auto filtered to ####.

Gosh, crap, and blimey are just fine and are not being censored. Strong sentiments are fine too, and I am confident that we are all intelligent enough to articulate them without use of profanity. I am not and offended by profanity and may frequently be heard saying things like "####", "####", or "####", and on rare occasion even "#################################". These certainly are not crimes, and when I use them in a bar it is more appropriate than say a preschool or office (unless it is the office of ####).

My decision was not intended to make anyone feel unwelcome, and was preceded by several private interventions (not all concerning magic9mushroom). This is representative of an ongoing issue, one which has made forum users uncomfortable (including magic9mushroom), causing several to leave. There are a few "usual suspects" that use this forum to vent their spleen and/or boost their egos. This in itself is not a bad thing, but the constant arguing and trivial bickering does at times make the forums rather tiresome to read. Worse, there are a few select individuals that decide (when they do not get the attention they crave) to become abusive, and then argue about the whether or not they were being abusive, or argue about whether they were arguing (or make excuses for their behavior). I can be very abrupt and abrasive myself, so I am not too bothered and don't judge anyone too harshly for acting out. There are other circumstances that I am not going to detail here, but the forum owner is aware of what has transpired.





[Updated on: Thu, 29 May 2014 20:40]

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Thu, 29 May 2014 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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neilhoward wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 07:35
Ron Asked me to help moderate earlier this year, in part because of behavior expressly proscribed by the above agreement.

No insult was intended by my edit.


Your placement of this after the statement "The full text of my pm to magic9mushroom follows" without any intervening note of the PM's end implies that this was part of the PM you sent me.

It was not.

The latter sentence is also a lie. You have distributed, in a public forum, a document (the edited post) attributing foolish beliefs to me which you know for a fact that I do not hold and have never stated. This is malicious slander, which no reasonable person could possibly find inoffensive. That you claim you intended no insult merely demonstrates your contempt for the intelligence of other members.

EDIT:

neilhoward wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 08:43
My decision was not intended to make anyone feel unwelcome, and was preceded by several private interventions (not all concerning magic9mushroom).


For the record, I have received no prior PM warnings from neilhoward concerning any alleged prior trespasses of mine.

EDIT2: I see that neilhoward or some other moderator has re-edited the posts to place the mod text in crimson and bold. This is slightly better. However, I believe I am still entitled to have the "amazingly spectacular" text removed entirely, and to a public apology - not a statement denying guilt, an apology for his outrageous actions taken in his official capacity as moderator - from neilhoward.


[Updated on: Fri, 30 May 2014 00:18]

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 06:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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neilhoward wrote on Thu, 29 May 2014 23:35
Ron Asked me to help moderate earlier this year, in part because of behavior expressly proscribed by the above agreement.

No insult was intended by my edit.

Ron put the wolf to guard the ... sheep? Rolling Eyes

I know for a fact that Ron dislikes profanity, including the commonest synonym for "donkey". But: his Forums, his rules. Lurking

The key word is "moderation". As in "don't use the hammer when the feather is enough". Boxing



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 29 May 2014 20:43
I believe I am still entitled to have the "amazingly spectacular" text removed entirely, and to a public apology - not a statement denying guilt, an apology for his outrageous actions taken in his official capacity as moderator - from neilhoward.


This is fantasy. You were in the wrong when you knowingly and willfully broke the forum rules. Your "oh woe is me" beset upon narrative does not change this. Threatening to commit suicide does not change this. Do not use profanity on this forum. Do not blame other people for your bad behavior. This is a forum for Stars!, not whinging and drama.

I wish you all the best. Have an excellent day.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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neilhoward wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 11:13
This is true. You are absolutely right - I shou;ldn't have changed the meaning of the sentence, which I could merely have removed the profanity. I apologise, and will now go and correct all the edits (and quotes of those edits) to something more appropriate

I wish you all the best. Have an excellent day.


Surely that's what you meant to write...
After all I "just" removed some abuse directed at a forum member...

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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I can't believe that the 'mod' here can't figure out why people are annoyed at him.
It's not just because he censored someone on such a flimsy point, where he was INVOLVED in the discussion, in a post that was in DIRECT REPLY to his post.
It's because he censored it in a way that changed the original meaning of the post... (and it's not even a bad attempt at sarcasm/irony).



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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Your annoyance is as irrelevant as your opinion.
Forum rules were broken.
I made a decision.
No amount of crocodile tears from the peanut gallery are going to change that.
If you do not agree with the forum rules, then find another forum to troll.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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If forum rules were broken, you should have (example of correct censoring) ##### censored it.
Not put your d### (see the forum's auto censoring on the left) (example of correct censoring) ###### words to (example of correct censoring) ###### change the meaning of the post.

You are a moron (note.. no censoring here) by trying to defend your decision and ignoring the full issue... which is the WAY you carried out your "decision".

Ron, why in the world did you add this idiot as a mod, when he escalates fights?
As I said earlier, a good mod resolves issues and is careful with the words he uses.
This guy, who admits he is a jerk and has anger issues, obviously is NOT.

If this is the type of mod (who refuses to admit his mistake) who's going to manage the forums.. I'm taking the official "suggestion" of the "mod" and see no point in being on these forums.
Crocodile tears... Peanut gallery.. Troll? Bah.
What a typical example of a condescending #######.
(note... the way to censor shown here again).


[Updated on: Fri, 30 May 2014 20:13]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Fri, 30 May 2014 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
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I've emailed Neil and said that I replace with #'s and don't change the words to others.

To those who didn't know, yes, I don't like profanity and I turned on the forum's auto censor. I do not like it to be circumvented. This forum should be 'family friendly' where younger Stars! players can safely learn and interact with the Stars! community.



Ron Miller
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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Sun, 01 June 2014 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrvan is currently offline mrvan

 
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Ron wrote on Fri, 30 May 2014 23:05
I've emailed Neil and said that I replace with #'s and don't change the words to others.

To those who didn't know, yes, I don't like profanity and I turned on the forum's auto censor. I do not like it to be circumvented. This forum should be 'family friendly' where younger Stars! players can safely learn and interact with the Stars! community.


Daddy, what's a "space orgy"? Very Happy

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Sun, 01 June 2014 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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Orgia, from the Greek, indicating secret rites. Often involving singing, dancing, sacred drinking, and math.

[Updated on: Sun, 01 June 2014 21:41]

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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Sun, 01 June 2014 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
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neilhoward wrote on Sun, 01 June 2014 21:41
Orgia, from the Greek, indicating secret rites. Often involving singing, dancing, sacred drinking, and math.

Lots of math! Mainly calculating 25% and 33% of things, and keeping certain things below certain 'magic' numbers like 256 or 65535. Very Happy



Ron Miller
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Re: Mod edit: do not use profanity Mon, 02 June 2014 04:13 Go to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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And killing. Lots of killing! Twisted Evil


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