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| Re: Minefields |
Fri, 06 June 2003 07:00   |
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| zoid wrote on Fri, 06 June 2003 03:48 |
I don't see any reason to use the speed trap minefield. I'd rather have the enemy hit my standard minefield, take damage and stop. The speed trap minelayers are more expensive, more bulky, less efficient (less mines laid) and have a greater chance of stopping a fleet exceeding warp 6 than does a standard minefield (stopping the fleet but preventing any damage). So what is the point? What are they good for? What am I missing here?
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If the goal of mine fields are to damage the enemy, nothing.
If the goal of mine fields are to obstruct their movements by either slowing them, causing them considerable effort to sweep, or channel their attacks towards predictable targets then the speed trap is fairly effective due to it's low top speed.
I take it by your statement that the heavy mine is your favorite? Easy to lay, and does mucho damage when struck?
- Kurt
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| Re: Minefields |
Tue, 17 June 2003 19:41 |
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It's not impossible.
I've had a ship manage warp 9 for 23ly through speed bumps before... (a record? It certainly shocked me)
OK it was one ship out of the 300 that tried to make it...
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| Re: Minefields |
Tue, 17 June 2003 20:03 |
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The odds would have been very high against it but not zero.
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| Re: 3% or 3.5% |
Tue, 17 June 2003 21:10 |
|
 LEit |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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| Nexus One wrote on Tue, 17 June 2003 10:49 |
And yes they are planet-savers; speed traps can give you 100% guaranty that your opponent would not raid your planet in one turn if you have a decent minefield (speed trap) around it and enemy fleet is still at some good distance (at least 26 l.y away). Note that you can't crashsweep it with chaff, they won't blow and trigger other mines.
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It is not 100% as some one else mentioned. Chance is checked each ly of travel, so even at warp 10 you only have a 17.5% chance of hitting a speed trap mine per ly. (You are correct, it is 3.5%)
Also note that the speed you set doesn't matter, what matters is how far you travel, so if you order your fleet to go warp 8 for 25ly, it will count as going warp 5 for hitting mine fields (and only for hitting mine fields, fuel, display, and CE check use set speed).
You can chaff sweep a speed trap field, I've just tested it. Because the chance of hitting is so high you don't need as many fleets either. The hardest thing about it is collecting all the ships that hit back into a fleet the following year, normally the chaff dies...
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: 3% or 3.5% |
Wed, 18 June 2003 09:43 |
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| Nexus One |
 | Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 75
Registered: December 2002
Location: Szczecin, Poland | |
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| LEit wrote on Wed, 18 June 2003 03:10 |
It is not 100% as some one else mentioned. Chance is checked each ly of travel, so even at warp 10 you only have a 17.5% chance of hitting a speed trap mine per ly. (You are correct, it is 3.5%)
Also note that the speed you set doesn't matter, what matters is how far you travel, so if you order your fleet to go warp 8 for 25ly, it will count as going warp 5 for hitting mine fields (and only for hitting mine fields, fuel, display, and CE check use set speed).
You can chaff sweep a speed trap field, I've just tested it. Because the chance of hitting is so high you don't need as many fleets either. The hardest thing about it is collecting all the ships that hit back into a fleet the following year, normally the chaff dies...
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Geeez, 
It looks like I was very wrong about speed mine (especialy that I had so much trust in them in games I pleayed).
Sorry for misleading anyone. 
... and thanks for correcting the things.
Still I think they are good protection from a sudden attack, but not that good as I though before.
Regards,
Feliks
Check out my new program S!RP (test version)!
ftp://library.southern.edu/starsreportsprocessor.zip
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| Re: 3% or 3.5% |
Tue, 09 September 2003 06:27 |
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| Robert |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
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here it is: 
| Quote: |
ZooltaR wrote:
>
> I'm trying to get one SD (Hi Ward!) off my back. He laid several nice
> heavy minefields in my space, with minelayers nested iside. Attempt to
> sweep them "slowly and carefully" will probably result in a minefield
> blasting and the layers moving somewhere else. Thinking about possible
> solutions, I came to the following idea:
>
> Build several cheap destroyers with good firepower and sweeping
> capability. Send 6 of them to the minelayers at Warp 8 (minelayers are
> 60,51 ly away - so no warning for the SD) AS SEPARATE FLEETS. Speed is 2
> "warps" higher than safe, so each of them has 2% chance per ly travelled
> that it hits the mine. In other words, chances it will arrive undamaged
> are .98^60, or 0.2916025.
Nope. Not how it works. The chance of hitting a mine is not checked
seperately for each LY traveled. It is directly additive for each LY
traveled. The chance can go to 100% or more, in which case a hit is
certain (in this case, and warp 8 anything over 50 LY means an automatic
hit). As the help file notes at one point "you *will* hit a mine",
discussing how the percentages add.
But then how come I sometimes go some distance into them and sometimes
another? - might be the rejoinder. This I only gather from testing, and
is not in the help - apparently a "roll" is made for the hit chance, and
the ship goes until the roll is exceeded by the mine hit chance or until
it gets out of the field or completes movement.
So, again, the hit chance doesn't multiply, it *adds*. Which is much
worse. It means the SD can guareentee non-intercept, for example, by
staying far enough away through enough of the right type of mines.
As some one else noted, this is one nice use of speed traps for SD - a
small field near the minelayer will stop anyone going fast enough to
reach the layer. Though they are heavy enough that they will be less
well represented i |
...
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| Re: 3% or 3.5% |
Tue, 09 September 2003 11:51 |
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| LEit |
| Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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This is not true, mine fields do not add the chances, they multiply.
I just sent 10 ships 29.00 ly at warp 6 through a speed trap field. 3 of them made it, including the first of the 10.
If mine fields added the chance per ly, it would have a 3.5% * 1 per ly, which would be a 101.5% chance of hitting a mine. If it is checked each ly it has a 64.4% of hitting a mine. Since it was able to go that far, it obviously isn't 101.5%...
3 making it is pretty much what you would expect, slightly unlucky, but not too unreasonable.
Other interesting things I found in this test:
You check for mines before you move each ly, so in this test there was one ship that didn't move becuase it hit a field immediatly.
One of the ships hit a mine at the same location as a world, the ship got killed in the battle.
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Chaff Sweeping |
Tue, 09 September 2003 11:58 |
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| LEit |
| Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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| ASword wrote on Wed, 18 June 2003 01:58 |
Collecting them is not a problem since their orders will still be set so they'll all arrive a turn later (unless the field is truly huge ).
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I generally target them at a point in space, for three reasons:
1) Speed for mine field impacts is not what you order, but instead the minimum speed needed to cover the distance (note that this does not apply to fuel used however). So you need to send them at least 82ly if you want them to truly go warp 10. (To test this, send a large number of fleets 16ly at warp 10 through a field, they'll all get through).
2) Odds of hitting go up with the amount of mine field you travel through, so going past your target increases the odds of hitting a mine, and therefore means you need to dedicate fewer fleets to chaff sweeping.
3) Battles are very annoying to look at with 100's of chaff in individual fleets cluttering them up...
I tend to gather the surviving chaff into a fleet and send it somewhere, typicly the world I just hit. If they're spread all over the place, I can either let them continue, or give individual orders to each one.
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: 3% or 3.5% |
Wed, 10 September 2003 02:47 |
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| Robert |
| Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
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| Quote: |
This is not true, mine fields do not add the chances, they multiply.
I just sent 10 ships 29.00 ly at warp 6 through a speed trap field. 3 of them made it, including the first of the 10.
If mine fields added the chance per ly, it would have a 3.5% * 1 per ly, which would be a 101.5% chance of hitting a mine. If it is checked each ly it has a 64.4% of hitting a mine. Since it was able to go that far, it obviously isn't 101.5%...
3 making it is pretty much what you would expect, slightly unlucky, but not too unreasonable.
Other interesting things I found in this test:
You check for mines before you move each ly, so in this test there was one ship that didn't move becuase it hit a field immediatly.
One of the ships hit a mine at the same location as a world, the ship got killed in the battle.
- LEit
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then it is again one jason cawley article run out of date.
i am sure he was right the time he wrote it, maybe this has been changed by some of the patches? and in times of chaff sweeping who cares anyway...
thanks for setting this right
robert
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Ummm, sure! 
I do FREESTYLE math.
