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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Testbeds for battle - Battlesim, Customised or based on Actual Game Files
poll.gif  Testbeds for battle - Battlesim, Customised or based on Actual Game Files Wed, 07 March 2012 18:05 Go to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5


Battle sim creation[ 6 votes ]
1. Use the pre-created battlesim 3 / 50%
2. Make a tested and then create the battlesim 0 / 0%
3. What are you talking about? 1 / 17%
4. Don't tell more people, d###it!! 1 / 17%
5. Use the existing game for the battlesim 1 / 17%

How do you guys create test-beds (for testing battles).*
Thought I'll ask, as I don't see many people acknowledging the last option, even though it is legit.
If you don't know what option 5 is, or how it's done, please leave a note below.

Also, please vote in the second poll, down in the thread.

Edit - Summarized post for accurate archiving.

-------------------------------------------
I meant to ask how you guys create battlesims.
I'll create a new poll, available below.

Three options.
1. Use the pre-created battlesim 3 / 75%
2. Make a tested and then create the battlesim 0 / 0%
3. Use the existing game for the battlesim 1 / 25%

If you don't know what option three is, please drop a note here.
I would love to know how many know of that option and how many haven't even heard of it.
-------------------------------------------


[Updated on: Fri, 09 March 2012 06:40]

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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eagle of Fire

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5
I still have no idea what is the real question here... Are you interested to know if we actually do testbeds? O_o


STARS! Wiki
STARS! Wiki Français
I am on a hot streak... Literally.

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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1190
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!

When testing race performance, I always do testbeds based on uni setings. If game settings say 5 players in small dense, will I set the testbed in small dense uni and use 32 closest stars. Usually I also do testbeds with good and with bad planet draw. Especially the later is important, because with non-3-immune races I never get as much green planets in my space as the hab calculator predicts I should. Wink

BR, Iztok

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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BeeKeeper is currently offline BeeKeeper

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 214
Registered: December 2007
Location: Devon, UK, GMT
I have used test beds for two different purposes so far. The first is simply to test a new race design for a game. In this scenario I set up a game with as far as possible the same conditions as the game I am planning on playing in, i.e. the same size universe, number of players etc. The other players are of course* the AI so I set them as expert and simply choose as wide a selection as possible. Not very scientific I suppose and as a refinement I should probably try and second guess what other PRTs the "real" players are going to select, although of course this does not work for IT - which the AI does not do.

The problem I have found with this method is there is a huge amount of luck in the draw of planets. Not so much of the HW but in what planets are suitable for colonisation around the HW. This has had a big difference in the outcome of the test bed games I have played so far.

The second use of test beds is simply to model a predicted battle.

I have come unstuck with this (SAS4 still hurts!) when I did not fully model all the players involved. For example, I was one of three players planning an attack on a fourth (he won the game so don't feel sorry for him.) and I simply added up all our ships and put them into a test bed as one player against the opposition. The model showed we would win but in reality we lost because 3 teams against one is not the same as one against one. What happened was the stronger player simply took us apart one after another, he did not attack us all at the same time - which is what I had modelled.

* I suppose it would be possible to set up a test bed where you play everyone and not use the AI - but I would need to be marooned on wi-fi enabled desert island to have the time for such a game.



[Updated on: Thu, 08 March 2012 16:20]

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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 563
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I use testbeds for testing races, and for testing upcoming battles.

When testing races I usually don't include any other races, but still use the same size/density and whether galaxy clumping is checked as the real game. When testing small variations in race specifics I use max. minerals to make the testbeds more easy to compare, and once I am fairly certain as to the race to use I run a testbed where max. minerals isn't checked to make certain how my mineral situation is - And in that testbed I make certain I am using a poor mineral draw for my HW.

When testing upcoming battles I use the battlesim. If I come across a battle at a low tech level where I need to test it, then I would probably try to set up races at the approximate tech levels involved, but that hasn't happened yet.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: battlesim creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5


Battle sim creation[ 4 votes ]
1. Use the pre-created battlesim 3 / 75%
2. Make a tested and then create the battlesim 0 / 0%
3. Use the existing game for the battlesim 1 / 25%

Lord was I drunk yesterday.. I meant to ask how you guys create battlesims.
I'll create a new poll?

Three options.
If you don't know what option three is, please drop a note here.
I would love to know how many know of that option and how many haven't even heard of it.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: battlesim creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 563
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Well, I don't know what you mean by option 3.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
Lt. Junior Grade
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 492
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware
In a simple game I use the pre-made battlesim, with 16 races, it has everything you need for most simple battles.

In an advanced game, I build my own battlesim with all the races I need so I can do any battles that may come up. It's worth it in the long run as a smaller force can win if the battleboard is set up correctly, ask Ashlyn.



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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Thu, 08 March 2012 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1053
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
PaulCr has made quite a sophisticated battlesim that uses the m-files/f-files.

But to be honest, I find it unbelievable boring to do battlesims with Stars or other tools. Especially since the battle-engine includes, well, let's call it a thrilling randomizing factor.

So what I usually do is to use pencil, paper and my calculator and I try to emulate the worst case scenario: enemy ships moving exactly right, my ships completly stupid, if initiative is even I always assume that my ships fire last (or first if it would be better to shoot last) and so on.

After having an overview, I assess the risks and then I decide wether I am in the mood to play it safe or risky.

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Re: Testbed creation - Dummy or actual Fri, 09 March 2012 06:58 Go to previous message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Altruist wrote on Fri, 09 March 2012 07:44

PaulCr has made quite a sophisticated battlesim that uses the m-files/f-files.

But to be honest, I find it unbelievable boring to do battlesims with Stars or other tools. Especially since the battle-engine includes, well, let's call it a thrilling randomizing factor.


Checked stars! wiki and the links show that the original PaulCr utility download links are down.
http://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Utilities/Index#PaulCr.27 s_Utilities

Thankfully stars!wiki has his best util archived.
http://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Utilities/Index#Stars.21_ Host_Creator
I agree that battlesim creation is a pain, but with Paul's host file creator, you get an instant battle bed, without a lot of pain/effort if it works well.

I don't see how a publicly available util which uses fairly obtained in-game information, saves grunt labor and time, could be considered unethical.
It would be unethical if others don't know about it, or they seem to have forgotten about it.
Which is why I made this thread Wink

link to original thread on SAH


[Updated on: Fri, 09 March 2012 07:10]

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