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icon5.gif  Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Mon, 14 November 2011 09:45 Go to next message
Core34 is currently offline Core34

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: November 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Hi!

I'm on and off with Stars! since the very beginning and I recently convinced a couple of friends to go for another round.

While playing with the race wizard this question came to my mind and I wondered, what the community's opinion is:

I played several games with a grav-immune CA with TT(do I hear a "booo!"? Rolling Eyes ). Now I wondered if maybe the advantage points are better invested in other improvements than in going for immunity. Instead a maxed grav bar would mean as many habitable planets. The habitable planets - or most of them - would be much smaller but on the other hand the TT LRT wouldn't be wasted on gravity. The recovered points could for example be used to make the bars for temperatur and radiation wider.

I've not yet found time to do a testbed, so I can't deliver real numbers - but then, I just want to hear what you think about it.

So long,
fab

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Mon, 14 November 2011 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Void is currently offline Void

 
Ensign

Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7
Hi fab,

You're asking the right question. Without doing any testbedding...

I would think the RW points could be put to better use, but what use is somewhat dependent upon the particular game setup and the other characteristics of your race. Personally, I leverage Craebild's hab tool to see the ramifications of different hab settings.

Cheers,
Void

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Tue, 15 November 2011 01:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Braindead is currently online Braindead

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 231
Registered: April 2005
Location: Montana
When you select immunity with either CA or TT, you reduce the value you get from it. In other words you are overpaying. When you select immunity with both of those, you are overpaying by a lot. You should take the points (either from immunity or from TT) and use them someplace else.

- braindead



Mess with the best, die like the rest!

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Tue, 15 November 2011 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Core34 is currently offline Core34

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: November 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Hi.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I agree with you (Braindead) considering the "overpaying". The fact, that this means most habitable planets to be much better may lead to a faster growth and so a quicker start, though. I have to check this with the hab tool.

You sure will eventually reach a grav value of 100% for your planets, but it will be drastically later in the game.

The next question that rises in my mind is, if TT really pays off for a CA. Confused In the end it takes a long time until TT brings more terraforming than without - and it comes with the need to research bio AND . Though I have to admit I like that organic armor...

Thanks for pointing me at the hab tool, Void - I had forgotten about it. There are so many tools now in the wiki. I will check this out. Btw, what I really like and haven't known in my earlier Stars! days is the RW Calc tool - real handy for estimating the ramp up.

So long,
fab

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Tue, 15 November 2011 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 968
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

Hi Core,

the Strogest Race in Stars is a CA with TT. There are a lot of
different CA settings but it is long time ago because the Race is so strong it is most time forbitten in Multiplayer games.

For the Topic:

A CA player mostly get better us if he dont us a immunity the Points you spend are mche more usfull in other parths gorw Tech faktories if any.

The main advantage of the TT CA is that you have only to research Bio to get a Hab ubgreat everywhere. Bio 9 is reached real fast and gives you a massive boost to your habs ( +10Terraforming everywhere ). you must have 3 techs at Level 10 for the same Effekt.

To make us of this a high pop grow would help.


So far

ccmaster

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Tue, 15 November 2011 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Void is currently offline Void

 
Ensign

Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7
Core34 wrote on Tue, 15 November 2011 07:28

Btw, what I really like and haven't known in my earlier Stars! days is the RW Calc tool - real handy for estimating the ramp up.

I'm not familiar with this one; it does sound handy! Do you have a link?

Cheers,
Void

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Tue, 15 November 2011 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Braindead is currently online Braindead

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 231
Registered: April 2005
Location: Montana
Core34 wrote on Tue, 15 November 2011 07:28

Hi.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

You're welcome.

Quote:

The fact, that this means most habitable planets to be much better may lead to a faster growth and so a quicker start, though.


Remember, immunity costs a lot. And I mean A LOT. There is a good reason for it. If you are not CA, it really makes a difference. However, for a CA that difference is very small. It's all about trade-offs. In this particular case, your gain for a CA with immunity compared to a CA without immunity (especially with TT) is very small. The benefit you get from taking the points and using them someplace else is much bigger. You can get better economy, cheaper factories/mines, higher growth rate, better tech, etc.

Quote:

I have to check this with the hab tool.


You might want to testbed this. Also, remember that no tool will tell you how playable your race is.

Quote:

The next question that rises in my mind is, if TT really pays off for a CA. Confused In the end it takes a long time until TT brings more terraforming than without

It gives you a nice boost at the start. You start with +/- 7%. And +/- 10% is right there too.

Quote:

- and it comes with the need to research bio AND .

Everything comes at a price. In case of CA, the price is very low, which is why it is not allowed in most games.

- braindead



Mess with the best, die like the rest!

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Wed, 16 November 2011 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Core34 is currently offline Core34

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: November 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Hi!

Quote:


Btw, what I really like and haven't known in my earlier Stars! days is the RW Calc tool - real handy for estimating the ramp up.


I'm not familiar with this one; it does sound handy! Do you have a link?




http://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Utilities/Calculators There it is. Smile

Probably you're right and the gain is too small compared to the high cost of an immunity. I'm still not sure which race to play in the upcoming game, but it's not restricted. Maybe I'll find time for testbedding next weekend.

It's a shame that Stars! sees so little activity. It seems that shiny graphics and sound are much more important nowadays than depth and replayability. I also like, that the PBEM mode gives me the freedom of playing when I find time. We're only going to do one turn a week, that means a REALLY long game but also give me and my friends to play - otherwise, most of us could not afford enough time.

I have to admit that no strategy game kept me thinking as much as Stars! about game mechanics and calculations. And there's surely no other game that was written in the 90s and I still play. Well, apart from Nethack, I guess... Rolling Eyes

So long,
fab

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Wed, 16 November 2011 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
This thread has a fair bit on race design for CA
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=393 8&start=0&rid=256&S=c04b4ee00865b097fe089f40a4db 9e51



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: Immunity vs maxed hab range bar Fri, 02 December 2011 03:13 Go to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1359
Registered: May 2008
The answer to the OP's question is "neither". With a TT CA, you shouldn't have any habs wider than 58 (for maxing out at TT 20) and you can go quite a bit lower.

As for the utility of TT for CA, TT is basically free for CA. Assuming you have reasonably sized habs and no immunity, the points you get for shrinking them by 4 clicks (as you start with TT7 instead of +-3) already pay for TT. So the only reason not to take TT is if it's banned (which, admittedly, is pretty damned likely).


[Updated on: Fri, 02 December 2011 03:13]

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