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icon3.gif  MT parts details Fri, 29 November 2002 13:14 Go to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
Here is a description of MT parts excluding ships. New players may want this information. I don't recall the source or author. Downloaded in 1998. Smile

Anti Matter Torpedo
Tech: Weap 11, Prop 12, Bio 21 Mass: 8 Abilities: Damage=60, Range=6, Initiative=0, Accuracy=85%
This is a medium strength torpedo that's very light and cheap to build. Good for horde fleets if you have high biotech. No other torpedo has a higher base accuracy, making this a nice weapon to have if your opponent has good jammers. And as it is range 6, and very light, it is possible to build light fast missle ships to counter those fast beamers the enemy keeps sending at you.

Multi Contained Munition
Tech: Ener 21, Weap 21, Elec 16, Bio 12 Mass: 8 Abilities: Damage=140, Range=3, Initiative=6, Cloak=10%, Torp accuracy +10%, Scan=150/75,
Bombs Planets at 2% colonists & 5 installations Lays 40 mines/yr {THE ultimate weapon}
This item can do almost everything. It's first and foremost a beam weapon, which has twice the firepower of Blasters, but is a little shy of Disruptors, the next class up. It is range 3, although if I have Weap 21, I might prefer to just research one more Weap level and go with Mega Disruptors, or use normal range 2 Disruptors for half the mineral cost. As a bomb, it's about as good as an M-80, although it does have the advantage of being not much heavier than any beam weapon, so you can load a BB with these and have a gateable bomber that packs quite a bit more punch than those two slot Mini Bombers. Perhaps it's best use is as a pen-scanner for NAS races, where 75 ly of yellow is very good. One might be able to load a Nubian or some other ship with these, and have a multi-purpose SB killing, planet bombing, mine laying to secure the area capital ship. They say that the only way to
get a capital ship in the limited to tech 10 demo is by getting the MT Lifeboat (which has these on it).

Hush-a-Boom
Tech: Weap 12, Elec 12, Bio 12 Mass: 5 Abilities: Pop-Kill-Rate: 3.0% Facs/Mines/Defences Destruction: 2
This is just a bomb, which is kind of like a Smart Bomb, in that it's very good at pop killing (better than a Cherry, and almost as good as Enriched Neutron) but not so good at installation destroying (only as good as Lady Finger). The special thing about this, is that it's very cheap and light. Light means ships other than Mini Bombers are gateable, and cheap means (especially with a
non-NRSE race where engines aren't expensive) vast
hordes can be churned out without eating up valuable
minerals or resources. You get it pretty early tech-wise too, before bombs of comparable firepower.

Langston Shell
Tech: Ener 12, Prop 9, Elec 9 Mass: 10 Abilities: shield=125, Armor=65, Cloak=10%, Jam=5%, Scan=50/25
This is a good shield component. It's the third best shield in the game, with 15 more dp than the Gorilla Delegator, and you get it 2 Ener levels earlier too. A 25 ly pen-scanner isn't that good, but if you have NAS you'll still be glad to have it.

Mega Poly Shell
Tech: Ener 14, Cons 14, Elec 14, Bio 6 Mass: 20 Abilities: Armor=400, Shield=100, Cloak=20%, Jam=20%, Scan=80/40
This item is incredibly powerful. It's the second strongest Armor in the game. It has the same dp as Valanium, but you get it 2 Cons levels earlier. It weighs half as much too, and we all know how important weight is in getting those Cruisers and Nubians under 300kt. Mega Poly has a shield component, so you can have the advantages of shield stacking without having to waste a slot on an actual shield. It's also has other very useful goodies, such as a decent cloak, and a 40 ly pen scanner which is great to get when you have NAS. However the best thing about it is the built in Jammer 20. This allows you to get very high jamming without having to waste Elec slots (which are better used on computers). Fill one armor stack on your SB's and start with 73% jamming! This is a great thing to hold you over the big gap in Cons tech until you get Superlatanium and Jammer 30's, and even then you lose some of the advantages this gives you.

Multi Function
...



[Updated on: Wed, 31 March 2010 21:50] by Moderator





BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: MT parts details Sun, 15 June 2003 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zapan is currently offline Zapan

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: June 2003
Location: Burlington, Ont.

Jumpgates sound too perfect. What about range and weight allowances are they infinite? sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, I looked but could not find these important details


If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.

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Re: MT parts details Sun, 15 June 2003 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Taubat is currently offline The Taubat

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 263
Registered: December 2002
no not really, it all depends on destination gate, say youre gating to a 300/500 gate, and one of youre ships is 600KT, that ship will take damage but you can still gate caro, useful for sending a ton of little colonizers through to colonize other planets Razz


Royal Sha'a'kar of the Taubat people

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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Well.... this is nice...

But could some wise men or experts give some more hints how to use these things???
I mean, there is much more to say about them,

e.g. the jumpgate does not work if the ship is on a planet I think, or the container can be used to make a b-17 able to
survive a mine-hit (if no ramscoop is used), or the container
can be used for SD to make a minelayer act as a freighter that
can pass minefields without being damaged by own detonations...

Some stuff like this might be interesting, what do you think???

Robert



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Something about the Langston....

I believe it can be used perfectly for early WM hordes.

The IS has the great croy, and can build nice hords, but they
are soooo slow... the Langsont can be used the same way, and
also by all PRTs, wo the speed advantage of warmongers can
be used to make fast, cheap good armored/shielded frigate
hordes... the jamming is not that good, but it is enough to
make the horde less attractive than chaff, where the IS croby
horde has problems sometimes...
I would really love to have a WM one day, with rams or CE LRT,
and the langston... But you cant count on the MT, can you???

And the Anti-Matter-Torp...

I believe the main advantage is that is costs nearly no minerals.
So in the end game it might be a good alternative to other weapons... I never came that far with AMTs, so I dont know it makes sense.... but it is the only situation i would use it...

The Hush needs some more detailed analysis, too...

It is one of the best parts i guess, and it is perfect to
take a planet with most installs intact...
In fact it is a normal bomb, not a smart bomb Smile
That means it bombs together with cherries, not with smarts,
and can be used in combination with smarts...
also the effect is linear, as normal bombs, not as smarts
(smart at some point dont become more powerful when adding
more smarts to the bombing fleets i mean - this is different
with hush bombs, just no saturation).
I did some very deep ananysis of hushs one day, i will see if i can find what i did that day... and will let you know)

And the mega-poly-shell...
I would like to know if someone uses them on nubians? Is it a
pure BB area item? And once it shows up, arent missles useless?
I personally start building torps only once MPSs show up, every
BB and other warships will have at least 74% jamming from that day on.... hmmm.... comments???


And something that comes into my mind...
I have the feeling that different MT parts show up more often than others... So the MPS, Enigma and Hush were given often, while i never got the genesis...
Any experience here from others???

Hey, lets do some MT parts brainstorming...

Robert




2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Something more... the gate, and the MT ships...

The ships are useless, arent they???

NO!

With a jumpgate you can gate pop! And with the mini-morp hull
based MT ships (there are 2!) you can do that quite early eventually...

So you can gate to an ally's planet on the other end of the universe and settle on a planet there...
Nice, isnt it???

Robert



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve is currently offline Steve

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 217
Registered: November 2002
Location: 40 deg N, 90 deg W
Comnments about parts

MCM - decent pen scanner for those with NAS. Also mine layers and bombs can be quite something when used in quantity.

Hush-a-boom - Best bomb in the game. Can kill the population only doing miner damage to the mines and factories. Unless you are CA with lots of de-terriforming ability (and can use smart bombs) this is the way to go.

Langston - decent early shield. Use on starbases for free jamming. I've played the whole game withg Starbases with all shield and armor slots filled with these to get the jamming. Also can place on Missile BBs for jamming purposes.

MPS - Good for starbases - see above. Also put in the armor slot of BBs for jamming. I normally play RS so genreally do not put armor in BBs, but this is the exception.

Multi-function pod - can use the whole game (even with nubians) instead of manuever jets or overthrusters.

EP Engine - saves a slot on nubians, but expensive vs the Prop 23 engine. Good substitute for IS-10 engines.

Genesis Device, Anti-matter torp are good for those forever games that refuse to end. Probably not much of a factor in a normal game.

Mini-morph hull - useless

Alien miner - Not as good as Ultra, but can be some use if OBRM.

Ships - those with jump gates are great for moving pop long distances. If you are playing as a AR, try to trade for all the others ships as you can move colonists only taking one turn of attrition. Otherwise scrap for tech. In one game I got the Langston shell from scrapping.



No trees were harmed in the making of this sig. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced

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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Sorry? Did you just say the alien miner isn't as good as the ultra miner?

Hmm... no.

The alien miner costs 1/4 the amount of the ultra miner - so resource for resource the Alien miner mines over 50% more minerals than the ultra miner.

Ironium for Ironium cost the alien miner still wins... but by a much smaller margin - a little over 5% more minerals.

Geranium for Geranium cost - the Ultra miner gets you 20% more minerals for you, so it wins that one.

Now the alien miner weighs 1/4 the ultra miner - therefore less fuel use when travelling through space, and it has a much greater ability to be used on the bigger mining hulls (i.e. more efficent use of resources + minerals)

Chuck in the 30% cloak and the 30% jamming and just using the alien miner fully loaded...

Mini miner - cloaks to 52%
Miner - 77%
Maxi-Miner - 87%
Ultra-Miner - 89%

You can even get the Ultra miner upto 96% cloak using the alien miner and the super stealth cloak - which comes in handy.

The half manouvering jet also helps lots too! And fully loaded ultra miner with ANY engine will be able to do 1.75 battle speed at least. An alpha 8 or a Trans galactic fuel scoop is enough to take it to 2.5

So if you can part with just a little more geranium you get a lighter, cheaper, cloaked and faster miner. Granted it wont mine as much as a single hull with a Robo-Ultra-Miner ship to ship - but in terms of total fleet mining... unless you're on the 32,767 ship limit (pointless due to the mining cap per fleet) there's not much point.

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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve is currently offline Steve

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 217
Registered: November 2002
Location: 40 deg N, 90 deg W
I did the analysis in a real game so your milage may very.

I think the issue was that when I did the analysis I had max Con tech and nexus El tech and crummy Bio (I was AR so never did get Bio in the double digits) - I would only take ARM with AR so ...

I did a comparison in a game I currently have the alien miner

AM 6I, 0B, 1G 14 res
Mine/mine
AM 15I, 0B, 2.5G 35res
UM 12I, 0B, 3G 42 res

In this game I am CA so have good Bio tech (and am OBRM so can't build the UM anyway)

It still looks like it costs more iron to build the alien miner and more hull and engine cost as well.



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Re: MT parts details Mon, 16 June 2003 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Mine too was from a real game... but I was AR with TT... So I had a fair level of bio.

I think there in lies the difference as to which is better - "it depends on your bio tech".

I still love the cloak, jam and jets built in - massive effect on survivability... I mention those because if any of my mining fleets left a planet they'd keep getting picked off by 98% cloaked missile ships... i hate playing against SS.

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Re: MT parts details Tue, 17 June 2003 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sgt. Bulldog is currently offline Sgt. Bulldog

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 88
Registered: November 2002
Location: dk
Here's some added info about reality: Wink

Anti Matter Torpedo
The MT will give you this item if your races is based on one or more immunities so you have taken bio expensive.

Multi Contained Munition
You'll get his AFTER you have allready maxed out weaponstech and is using MDs or AMPs.

Hush-a-Boom
The MT will give you this if your prime enemy is AR.

Langston Shell
You took RS so you've allready researched shield tech very high when you get this.

Mega Poly Shell
This is the item all the other players get from the MT, but where the MT changes direction&speed at the turn of your interception.

Multi Function Pod
This item is handed out to WMs when they allready have 2.5 speed ships with higher weaponstech.

Multi Cargo Pod
An IS will never get this item. LG races OTOH will.

Genesis Device
Another rare item which you'll never get if your mineral depletion is really bad.

Enigma Pulsar
You have gambled on low/expensive proptech when you get this. The prop23 requirement makes it out of sight.

Jump Gate
This item is mainly handed to HE races.

Alien Miner
This item goes to triimmune races.

Wink


[Updated on: Tue, 17 June 2003 05:08]

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Re: MT parts details Tue, 17 June 2003 07:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2340
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Robert wrote on Mon, 16 June 2003 13:03

e.g. the jumpgate does not work if the ship is on a planet I think

The jumpgate only works if there is no other gate present, that means: no gate of yourself, not one of your friend and not even one of your enemy (or neutral)!
So the jumpgate would work on a planet if there is no base with a gate ...

regards,
mch

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Re: MT parts details Tue, 17 June 2003 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paladin is currently offline Paladin

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2003
Location: Kentucky

Sgt. Bulldog wrote on Tue, 17 June 2003 05:08

Here's some added info about reality: Wink


Jump Gate
This item is mainly handed to HE races.

Wink


Actually I think the gate never goes to HE races since they would kill for gates. It's even better for them since it only works where there are no gates and it allows HEs to gate from any of their planets to one of their allies' gates.

It would suck if they had no allies though.

Paladin


[Updated on: Tue, 17 June 2003 07:57]




"There is no substitute for Integrity"

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Re: MT parts details Tue, 17 June 2003 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Sgt. Bulldog wrote on Tue, 17 June 2003 04:08

Here's some added info about reality: Wink


ROFLMAO ROFLMAO ROFLMAO ROFLMAO ROFLMAO

So true! So true!

The Crusader Angel



Nothing for now.

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Re: MT parts details Tue, 17 June 2003 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
Sgt. Bulldog wrote on Tue, 17 June 2003 05:08

Enigma Pulsar
You have gambled on low/expensive proptech when you get this. The prop23 requirement makes it out of sight.



EP only needs prop13. Which makes it one of the best items to get.



- LEit

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Re: MT parts details Sun, 29 June 2003 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deuce is currently offline Deuce

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 94
Registered: June 2003
Could the anti-matter torpedo make DEADLY CHAFF?

With 6 range they might actually get a shot off.
The drawback being tripling the mineral cost and an immensely larger resource requirement.

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Re: MT parts details Sun, 29 June 2003 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2340
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Deuce wrote on Mon, 30 June 2003 00:55

Could the anti-matter torpedo make DEADLY CHAFF?

With 6 range they might actually get a shot off.
The drawback being tripling the mineral cost and an immensely larger resource requirement.


Before starting that whole discussion again, take a look at:
The Academy > Anti Matter Torp

Wink

mch


[Updated on: Sun, 29 June 2003 18:59]

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Re: MT parts details Wed, 12 May 2004 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1

Messages: 138
Registered: November 2002
Location: Illinois US
So the Jumpgate destination mass limit is in effect but is the distance limited since its the departure gate that determines that aspect?

sprocket



Dieter of sprockets

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Re: MT parts details Thu, 13 May 2004 03:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wizard is currently offline wizard

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 279
Registered: January 2004
Location: Aachen, Germany
sprocket wrote on Thu, 13 May 2004 01:57

So the Jumpgate destination mass limit is in effect but is the distance limited since its the departure gate that determines that aspect?

sprocket


Exactly.

Andreas

P.S: Don't wonder if it says "Danger" when you try to gate to a planet - it does that every time, even when gating to an inf/inf gate...

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Re: MT parts details Thu, 13 May 2004 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2340
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
sprocket wrote on Thu, 13 May 2004 01:57

So the Jumpgate destination mass limit is in effect but is the distance limited since its the departure gate that determines that aspect?

Since there is no departure gate both weight and distance of the receiving gate matters,

mch

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Re: MT parts details Thu, 08 March 2007 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 556
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Does someone have the initial resource and mineral costs of the MT items ?

They are not listed in the post at the top of this thread.

I have a printout from a site that is now gone, but comparing the resource and mineral costs listed in that printout with the mineral and resource cost for the same item in the battlesim (i.e. at max tech) and my own experience with some of the items shows some of the values must be after some miniaturization, and in at least one case the vales in that printout must be plain wrong (they are lower than at max tech on two minerals).



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: MT parts details Thu, 08 March 2007 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Could use http://wumpus.mine.nu/stars/battlesim_tech.php to
generate bunch of custom tech games and check costs in them.

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Re: MT parts details Thu, 08 March 2007 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 556
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I could use that utility, yes.

Thank you for the link, I have read about that utility before, but have not found a link to it - Probably because I have not actively looked for a link for that utility.

I will probably try to work out the initial costs for MT parts this weekend (or at least start on the job), and I will of course publish my results here.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: MT parts details Thu, 08 March 2007 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Heh, another idea. Couldn't you just load exe into StarsEd and
check costs there. Surprised

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Re: MT parts details Fri, 09 March 2007 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2742
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
regiss wrote on Fri, 09 March 2007 04:33

Heh, another idea. Couldn't you just load exe into StarsEd and
check costs there. Surprised


Yep, that's where I got the "allitems" dump which I routinely use to check that kind of thing. Sherlock

Here's an excerpt:
class ID# Ener Weap Prop Cons Elec Bio Mass Resr Iron Bora Germ Name
2     19  21   21   0    0    16   12  8    40   6    40   6    Multi Contained Munition
3     8   0    11   12   0    0    21  8    50   3    8    1    Anti Matter Torpedo
4     9   0    12   0    0    12   12  5    5    1    5    0    Hush-a-Boom
6     15  20   10   10   20   10   20  0    5000 0    0    0    Genesis Device
7     7   5    0    0    10   5    5   20   20   8    0    2    Alien Miner
9     5   5    0    0    11   5    0   9    25   12   0    3    Multi Cargo Pod
9     10  16   0    20   20   16   0   10   40   0    0    50   Jump Gate
10    5   11   0    11   0    11   0   2    15   5    0    5    Multi Function Pod
11    7   12   0    9    0    9    0   10   20   10   2    6    Langston Shell
13    10  14   0    0    14   14   6   20   65   18   6    6    Mega Poly Shell
14    9   7    0    13   5    9    0   20   40   12   15   11   Enigma Pulsar
15    31  0    0    0    8    0    0   70   100  30   8    8    Mini Morph




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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