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Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 00:38 Go to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Immutable Rules

101.
All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-115 (immutable) and 201-215 (mutable).
102.
Initially rules in the 100s are immutable and rules in the 200s are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.
103.
A rule-change is any one of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule(or rules); (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment to a mutable rule(or rules); or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.
Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.
104.
All rule-changes posted to this thread shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required votes at the time that voting was closed.
105.
Every Home World Forum member is an eligible voter. Every Home World Forum member who has voted in this game at least once is a player.
106.
All proposed rule-changes shall be posted to this thread before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.
107.
No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the closing of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.
108.
Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall
...



[Updated on: Fri, 13 May 2011 00:40]

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5


Do you agree that a successful rule change should get 20 points? If a rejected rule change gets -10, then an accepted change should get +20.[ 5 votes ]
1. Yes. 1 / 20%
2. No. 2 / 40%
3. Gible, what evil have you unleashed on our forums?? @$ @$@ 2 / 40%

Proposal 301.
I propose an addendum to 209 that grants points to a succesful rule-change.
The quantum can be decided by consensus. (20 points).

Edit - Sorry, I meant Gible, not Blue turbit.
Edit - 301.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.
Edit - 301b.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets 2 votes, while each vote that accepted gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

My logic is that there will be more bad proposals than good, thus 2 points vs 5 points.
Edit - 301c.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.
Edit - 301d.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2. Any vote on the said proposal that does not fall in either of the 2 categories gets -2 as well.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes on the proposal get -5 points each.
Edit - 301e.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 points, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets the voter -2 points. Any vote on the said proposal that does not
...



[Updated on: Sat, 14 May 2011 04:07]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

This is too slow.

Ppl aren't voting, because I think ppl haven't even read your 1st post Razz

What now? Razz



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
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Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

Its confusing.


......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

yea.. it is.

To simplify
2 sets of rules.
1st set can't be changed
2nd set can be.

Proposals will be the 3rd set of rules.

Read it 2-3 times and it makes sorta sense.

Btw, vote and make a rule change proposal yourself.

Do you agree that a successful rule change should get 20 points?
If a rejected rule change gets -10, then an accepted change should get +20.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Quote:

I propose an addendum to 209 that grants points to a succesful rule-change.


I voted no just to see you loose 10 points Twisted Evil Laughing

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Lol.. but one of the rules states that no one can have negative points Razz

Also, where's your rule change proposal Twisted Evil



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
I propose to amend this rule:

214. No player is allowed to win.

to declare the ManicLurch is the winner! Laughing

edit(how do you create a poll? I get this error when hitting the create poll link:

Fatal error: Cannot unset string offsets in /var/www/autohost.cathey.us/htdocs/sahforum/index.php on line 333

)


[Updated on: Fri, 13 May 2011 12:40]

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5


works fine for me.[ 1 vote ]
1. hehe. 1 / 100%
2. hehe 2. 0 / 0%

ManicLurch wrote on Fri, 13 May 2011 22:06

I propose to amend this rule:

214. No player is allowed to win.

to declare the ManicLurch is the winner! Laughing

edit(how do you create a poll? I get this error when hitting the create poll link:

Fatal error: Cannot unset string offsets in /var/www/autohost.cathey.us/htdocs/sahforum/index.php on line 333

)


Fail.

111.
The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Quote:

Fail.

111.
The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.


This is going to be harder than remembering all the rules to the Glacier game Laughing

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

LOL.

I can't propose a 2nd rule for a week, but I know what it's going to be.
-100 points to turbit for bringing this here Wink
jk.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
To help get this going, I propose we change rule

203.
Until and unless an eligible voter has voted on a proposed rule-change, a proposed rule-change may be modified by the eligible voter proposing it.
Each eligible voter may propose exactly one rule-change at a time.


to Each eligible voter may propose up to 3 rule changes at a time.

(someone create a poll please, I still get errors)

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5


ManicLurch 302 : Re>203 : Each eligible voter may propose up to 3 rule changes at a time[ 5 votes ]
1. Yes. 2 / 40%
2. No. 3 / 60%

ManicLurch wrote on Fri, 13 May 2011 22:41

To help get this going, I propose we change rule

203.
Until and unless an eligible voter has voted on a proposed rule-change, a proposed rule-change may be modified by the eligible voter proposing it.
Each eligible voter may propose exactly one rule-change at a time.


to Each eligible voter may propose up to 3 rule changes at a time.

(someone create a poll please, I still get errors)


Done.
Btw, it's 1 week to vote.

So.. hehe.. till my approval doesn't pass, you don't get the +10 xD.


[Updated on: Fri, 13 May 2011 13:41]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Fri, 13 May 2011 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
Lt. Junior Grade
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 492
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware
I think you should get -10 points for a proposed rule change that don't get passed. And No points for a Proposal that does pass.

Now since you can't have a negative score we will all just sit at zero points.

? what was the point of this game again?

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

LittleEddie wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 05:26

I think you should get -10 points for a proposed rule change that don't get passed. And No points for a Proposal that does pass.

Now since you can't have a negative score we will all just sit at zero points.

? what was the point of this game again?



Lol, make a rule that defines the point of the game Wink

Btw, when ppl vote, they should give their reasons too..
We seem to be getting troll votes, grrrrr. (WHO VOTED NO FOR ME Razz)

Gible, we need a better way to collect the votes?
ps - Where is Gible, after his 1st post..
Has he handed over his burden and moved on like Atlas?? Razz


[Updated on: Sat, 14 May 2011 01:42]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Quote:

Where is Gible, after his 1st post..
Has he handed over his burden and moved on like Atlas?? Razz

I'm here and laughing my ass off.
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Quote:

Proposal 301.
I propose an addendum to 209 that grants points to a succesful rule-change.
The quantum can be decided by consensus. (20 points).

Perhaps you might reword this so that everyone knows exactly what the new rule's wording will be (it matters a lot). Also, WTF is a quantum?
Quote:

I voted no just to see you loose 10 points Laughing Twisted Evil
Per rule 204, your vote is invalid because it is too early and because you didn't post it to the thread.
Quote:

I propose to amend this rule:
214. No player is allowed to win.
to declare the ManicLurch is the winner!
As noted rule 111 requires that you win in another fashion so when you reword your proposal to win like that please also supply the new rule's exact wording.
Quote:

I propose we change rule

203.
Until and unless an eligible voter has voted on a proposed rule-change, a proposed rule-change may be modified by the eligible voter proposing it.
Each eligible voter may propose exactly one rule-change at a time.

to Each eligible voter may propose up to 3 rule changes at a time.
As above, are you only suggesting a change to the one rule-change at a time part thus making the new rule read "Until and unless an eligible voter has voted on a proposed rule-change, a proposed rule-change may be modified by the eligible voter proposing it. Each eligible voter may propose up to 3 rule changes at a time." or are you suggesting the entire rule be changed to only read "Each eligible voter may propose up to 3 rule changes at a time."

Quote:

what was the point of this game again?
Its like every game. The point is to win.
...

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

gible wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 12:08

Quote:

Proposal 301.
I propose an addendum to 209 that grants points to a succesful rule-change.
The quantum can be decided by consensus. (20 points).

Perhaps you might reword this so that everyone knows exactly what the new rule's wording will be (it matters a lot). Also, WTF is a quantum?



Darn.. was that a new word I made up?
You know what I meant.. The quantity/number of points.
gible wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 12:08


Quote:

I voted no just to see you loose 10 points Laughing Twisted Evil
Per rule 204, your vote is invalid because it is too early and because you didn't post it to the thread.


How do we identify valid/invalid votes?

Edit -
301.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.


[Updated on: Sat, 14 May 2011 02:49]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

nmid wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 18:44

Darn.. was that a new word I made up?
You know what I meant.. The quantity/number of points.
So nothing to do with quantum leap then?
Quote:

How do we identify valid/invalid votes?

Rules 204 & 205:
204.
A proposed rule-change may be voted on no less than one week
after it was last proposed or modified, whichever is later.
Eligible voters vote by posting their vote to this thread.
205.
While voting is allowed on a proposed rule-change, players may
void or change their their vote by posting their intention to this thread.
Voting on a proposed rule-change may be closed by any player and
no less than one week after the first vote on the prososed rule-change was made.

Quote:


301.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

Ah...encouraging cronyism I see...

Also...is the last sentence part of the "if it is accepted"? or does it always happen?...May I suggest you a) add a prefix to clarify this and also modify the rest of last sentence to read "Players who voted in support of the rule-change gets 5 points each and players who voted to opposed the rule-change lose 5 points each."

Not that I'm supporting this proposal per se. If your intention is to encourage participation then perhaps more points should be gained for supporting votes than opposing ie, reward participation in creating new rules rather than rewarding groups of people for voting together towards or against common goals. If the latter, perhaps you should award points to the "winning" side rather than the supporting side. Thus people would be rewarded for opposing an unpopular proposal.
...



[Updated on: Sat, 14 May 2011 03:12]

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

gible wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 12:39


Quote:


301.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

Ah...encouraging cronyism I see...
Also...is the last sentence part of the "if it is accepted"? or does it always happen?...May I suggest you a) add a prefix to clarify this and also modify the rest of last sentence to read "Players who voted in support of the rule-change gets 5 points each and players who voted to opposed the rule-change lose 5 points each."
Not that I'm supporting this proposal per se. If your intention is to encourage participation then perhaps more points should be gained for supporting votes than opposing ie, reward participation in creating new rules rather than rewarding groups of people for voting together towards or against common goals. If the latter, perhaps you should award points to the "winning" side rather than the supporting side. Thus people would be rewarded for opposing an unpopular proposal.


Right you are.
301b.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets 2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

My logic is that there will be more bad proposals than good, thus 2 points vs 5 points.
...



[Updated on: Sat, 14 May 2011 03:16]




I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

nmid wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 19:13

Right you are.
301b.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets 2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets 20 points. Each Yes vote gets 5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

So if I posted(voted) "I vote in support of proposal blah" and it is accepted then I'd lose 5 points for not saying "yes"? Shocked

Quote:

My logic is that there will be more bad proposals than good, thus 2 points vs 5 points.
ooo harsh...

Such faith in your fellows you have. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

hmpf.
Getting technical on me.

301c.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

nmid wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 19:31

hmpf.
Getting technical on me.

Just making sure I understand things correctly... Lurking

Quote:

301c.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

So if I vote on a different proposal, and this one is accepted I'll lose 5 points? Deal

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

gible wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 13:08

nmid wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 19:31

hmpf.
Getting technical on me.

Just making sure I understand things correctly... Lurking

Quote:

301c.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes get -5 points each.

So if I vote on a different proposal, and this one is accepted I'll lose 5 points? Deal


GRRRRRRRRRRRR.
My next post will have me tearing my hair out.
301d.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2. Any vote on the said proposal that does not fall in either of the 2 categories gets -2 as well.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes on the proposal get -5 points each.



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

nmid wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 19:41

GRRRRRRRRRRRR.
My next post will have me tearing my hair out.
301d.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2. Any vote on the said proposal that does not fall in either of the 2 categories gets -2 as well.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes on the proposal get -5 points each.

Awesome!


I vote in favour of nmid tearing his hair out!
(5 points for me if it's accepted?)

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Re: Nomic Sat, 14 May 2011 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1590
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

gible wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 13:18

nmid wrote on Sat, 14 May 2011 19:41

GRRRRRRRRRRRR.
My next post will have me tearing my hair out.
301d.
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it gets -10 points. Each vote that rejected the proposal gets +2 votes, while each vote that voted for the rejected proposal gets -2. Any vote on the said proposal that does not fall in either of the 2 categories gets -2 as well.
If the proposed rule-change is accepted, the player who proposed it gets +20 points. Each vote that voted in favor gets +5 points while all other votes on the proposal get -5 points each.

Awesome!


I vote in favour of nmid tearing his hair out!
(5 points for me if it's accepted?)


Fail.
You didn't number it as 303.
You didn't give the exact wordings for the proposed rule change.
YOU tear your hair out.

Razz



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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