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MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 03:01 Go to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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MT Items[ 22 votes ]
1. Mega Poly Shell 7 / 32%
2. Multi Contained Munition 1 / 5%
3. Hush-a-boom 1 / 5%
4. Multi Function Pod 0 / 0%
5. Enigma Pulsar 4 / 18%
6. Multi Cargo Pod 1 / 5%
7. Jump Gate 1 / 5%
8. Alien Miner 4 / 18%
9. Genesis Device 2 / 9%
10. Langston Shell 1 / 5%
11. Mini Morph 0 / 0%
12. Anti Matter Torpedo 0 / 0%

Ok here's a poll about which MT item is best. Vote for the one you find best and below state why. Yes i realise some are more helpful to different races, but this is just a general poll.

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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The Genesis device reforms planets and as such provides a potential infinite level of minerals and the ability for any race (given a long enough time and effort) to colonise everything (even one world races potentially)

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hyper is currently offline Hyper

 
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i think i remember having the antimatter torp.... it was a load of crap TBH :/


Aragh!

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
donjon is currently offline donjon

 
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Hyper wrote on Thu, 28 November 2002 04:00

i think i remember having the antimatter torp.... it was a load of crap TBH :/

Evil or Very Mad
Just to be the Devil's Advocate, I will vote for the antimatter torpedo... why?
The antimatter torpedo requires 3 ironium, 8 boranium, 1 germanium... and has a range of 6... damage 152...
as a torpedo it is exceeded in damage by only the Upsilon, and the Omega but with less than 1/10 the ironium requirements.

In fact, if it is compared to a beam weapon it is comparable in damage to the Disruptor types... however, it has a range of six which is double the range of the best disruptor. Basically, a ship equipped with antimatter torpedos is equivalent to a double range beamer, with a lower initiative, but just as effective against shields or armour.

All of the MT toys fall into a category which I call "break the norm" and most of them I can envision using to great advantage.

regards,
donjon

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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The antimatter torpedo does 60 damage, not 152. It is also very expensive resource wise. The bio tech requirement is 21 which is huge and totally removes the advantage of only needing tech 11 weapons.

The antimatter torpedo is only useful for putting on chaff as it give chaff a bit of bite and at a range to hold off beamers for a little while longer than usual. I think it was coyote who pointed this out to me on Starbase Delta, coyote used it on apelord or apelord used it on coyote, I can't remember which.

In any case I think that the AMT is the single most useLESS item from an MT.

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
donjon is currently offline donjon

 
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freakyboy wrote on Thu, 28 November 2002 14:13

The antimatter torpedo does 60 damage, not 152. It is also very expensive resource wise.

In any case I think that the AMT is the single most useLESS item from an MT.


Chuckle.... oops... I was looking at a modified stars! game... granted resources requirement is a bit high. Bio 21 is high, but not impossible especially for CA or TT.

I still think that all MT toys can be applied, you just have to review how it changes the rules, and use the advantages. If I had a personal least favorite it would be the Mini-morph.

regards,
donjon

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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The minimorph is useless too, but at least it doesn't pretend to be anything more than a smaller version of a metamorph which in itself aint that great. Small pokey cargo bay and though versatile, not much use for anything bar saving ship design slots by using general use designs.

All of the other MT items can be useful, except maybe the jump gate but only really to HE races or someone who doesn't Shocked use stargates!!!!!

The AMT is only useful when minerals (iron specifically) are low, and i mean LOW. As for bio 21, it wasn't a complaint because that was high as 21 is very acheivable and many MT items require good bio tech. My complaint was more that why have bio so high and weapons for example so low. If the bio requirement was say 11 also, then suddenly the AMT is VERY useful. AT weapon 12 propulsion 6 you get Jihad Missiles, 85 damage with 25% accuracy (i think thats right) - which by any right is a MAJOR advancement because at this stage sheilds are generally still weak and jammers are rarely in use. If you were given the option of Jihad or AMT then it's AMT all the way due to lower mineral cost, roughly equal damage (if sheilded) but with accuracy 3 times greater - i.e. even with lower damage against an unsheilded target you're still delivering 3x the damage due to better aim!!!!

Problem is I don't know of ANYONE ANYWHERE EVER thats reached bio tech 21 before reaching weapons tech 12. I thought most every race has the first initial tech goal at either 12 for the jihad or 11 for the gatling gun - both of which are the first major break throughs.

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Re: MT items Thu, 28 November 2002 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
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Vote is for jumpgate, although I never had the pleasure of receiving them in years of playing multi-player games. With the exception of having them on scouts given out by MT which also carry the gate.
Jumpgate IMO is very useful in that it allows you to gate minerals/colonists like an IT except for the extra move to space before gating. This could come in handy when expanding your empire to those remote forts with gates like an IT.




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Re: MT items Fri, 29 November 2002 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

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I think it really depends on the race and the game...

the mega-poly-shell is usually my favourite in the mid-game,
as it makes BBs 74% jammed... which is very nice...
and before super-v and especially with RS it is great...

the enigma is also very powerful i think. but when being
warmonger with ramscoops at prop 16 it is no more that
advantage...

the langston-shell is nice in the early game in some rare cases.
think of a warmonger getting his frigs at move 2.25 and with
good armor and shields and some jamming...
makes a nice early-game horde ship for WMs...

the multi-func-pod is not so good for WMs, as you have the
speed anyway...

the torpedo might be great in the very last stage of the game,
when minerals are rare... but before that it is useless i think.

jumpgates can be powerful in large universes when you need
to transport minerals and are not IT! nice bonus...

the multi cargo pod is nice when you want a B17 with it and
normal engines to survive a minehit (against SD this can be
nice in early and mid games...)

the genesis device is only useful in the VERY last stage of
the game... if you reach it and can use it - maybe the best
item in the game...

ok:
finally my 3 favourites are
1.) Mega Poly Shell
2.) Enigma Pulsar
3.) Hush a Boom
They are usable quite early in the game and help
you to survive the mid game to the end game...

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Re: MT items Fri, 29 November 2002 08:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
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2 more things:

the multi-contained munition is quite valuable for warmongers.
it is their only way to lay minefields!

also the multi-contained munition is maybe some nice add-on
for SD races...

for others it might me useless also...

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Re: MT items Fri, 29 November 2002 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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the MCM is very handy. Not as good as some weapons but it's various abilities give it the edge.

With MCM battleships/nubians you suddenly don't need bombers because (thouch not very good) you got lots of bombs.

If you're SD then you also get to travel anywhere constantly laying mines, or at least being able to lay them when some tries to intercept you, as opposed to having to stop and THEN lay the mines Sad

It's generally a handy weapon, saves on design slots, is relatively cheap and it is multipurpose as it can perform many more tasks than a normal beam weapon and you get these great battleships than can lay mines on the borders they patrol and bomb planets they assault.

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Re: MT items Fri, 29 November 2002 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jeffimix is currently offline jeffimix

 
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I say alien miner as its very light and gives miners a chance to escape being killed. (cloak + thruster)


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icon6.gif  Re: MT items Fri, 29 November 2002 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FurFuznel is currently offline FurFuznel

 
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I had to vote for the mega poly shield as it is one of the only components I have ever received (guess I am still a bit green Bounce at this game) Wink

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Re: MT items Fri, 29 November 2002 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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The alien miner is a god send to every ORBM race and is still superb for even an ARM race. Alien miner is possibly the best item for an AR race, only the jump gate really beats it since you can transport colonists quickly and with only a single years worth of transportation death, a opposed to the 7% per year every year of flight.

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icon10.gif  Re: MT items Sat, 30 November 2002 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jeffimix is currently offline jeffimix

 
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THe anti-matter torpedoe is very light. Like gateable missile ship light. This has its advantages when you simply have to move your fleet around a lot. I think the biotechnology does however make it useless until late in the game Sad Oh, and I htink AR lose less than 7% Embarassed

[Updated on: Sat, 30 November 2002 09:17]




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Re: MT items Sat, 30 November 2002 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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Cruisers with missiles are also gateable - but they also retain some actual power, with or without biotech.

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Re: MT items Tue, 03 December 2002 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mangar is currently offline Mangar

 
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Just to bring in also my opinion:

I love the enigma pulsar if received at right time.
The most useless is in my eyes the AMP as I usually play AR and thus doesnīt have mineral problems at all. Cool



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Re: MT items Wed, 04 December 2002 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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I'm enigma pulsar is no where near as good as a transtar. But then it don't require tech 23 in propulsion, so who cares?

The enigma pulsar comes in handy with big heavy components. It helps beamers close the gap quicker and helps torpedo ships to keep the gap longer.

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Re: MT items Wed, 04 December 2002 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apelord is currently offline Apelord

 
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If Enigma pulsar gives you better battle move and cloaking too!




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the other bastard die for his" -George Patton

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Re: MT items Thu, 05 December 2002 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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That's what I meant about closing the gap quicker - as in battle speed.

The cloaking does come in handy too but one thing I have noticed in stars is that if it isn't cloaked above 80% then it's not good enough.

At 80% and above you stand a much better chance of being 1 turn away at whatever warp you're moving at and not being detected. But then again Enigma pulsar can push your cloaking up to that all important 98%. I generally get my ships to 98% cloaked or I don't botherZ

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Re: MT items Thu, 05 December 2002 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SimonM is currently offline SimonM

 
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ZZsuite like the Langston Shell... it's a nice addition to toughen the skirmishers and B52's... The Jumpgate is nice, but I've only managed to get it in a game where I was a HE Embarassed

The other items I'm happy to receive are the MPS, EP, and the GD. The MM, AM, AMT, and MCP usually leave me saying Evil or Very Mad

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Re: MT items Fri, 06 December 2002 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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Yea shocked no-one has voted for the MFP. I found that to be an essential on most any hull, granted it isn't a break point for a ship but it can help tip balances.

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Re: MT items Sat, 07 December 2002 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mischief is currently offline Mischief

 
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if the most generally useful item, I'd have to say MPS, it's just one of those items that make you go Bounce
As has been mentioned earlier, all items can be useful, but the real beauty is that they bring the earlier, smaller hulls back out of obsolecence... A pack of scout chaff with an AMT and set to minimize damage to self, can be a serious threat if given enough covering heavies. MPS on frigates can make them equivalent to destroyers, how about MPS and MCM on your frigate mine-layers. Jump-gates are brilliant for SS deep-operations; all those rogues and galleons full of stolen enemy metals and 10 years of stealthy movement to get it on to your side of the border. Ultra-miners with AM, become 2nd line combat strip-miners, that can dis-engage if attacked. The list goes on...
Apart from the Unique ability items (JG and GD) all MT items can be bettered eventually, but you have to use more slots. Depending on current technology, MT items are most useful on the 2nd line, multi-role individual ships rather than Frontline Fleet specific warships.

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Re: MT items Sun, 08 December 2002 02:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mangar is currently offline Mangar

 
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freakyboy wrote on Fri, 06 December 2002 14:04

I'm shocked no-one has voted for the MFP. I found that to be an essential on most any hull, granted it isn't a break point for a ship but it can help tip balances.


The MFP is a nice add-on (like all the MT-stuff (beside the ships maybe, as they use a Design-slot and you canīt build more of them), but you asked for the BEST MT-Part.



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Re: MT items Sun, 08 December 2002 06:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
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My id indeed. I also mentioned it was a general poll. EVERY race can benefit from the MFP. It's handy to slap into elec slots ob beamer BB's. I honestly love the jumpgate when playing IT. It's handy to mass a giant fleet and send it into enemy territory. At the last minute gate it back to a border world and hey presto your enemies fleet is stranded out in space and gives you the chance to strike out into their lands with their defensive fleet far away.

I think the best MT item, flat out and with no doubt in my mind is the item that gives you the biggest advantage over your enemy.

If they have no minerals - GD
If they use slow BB beamers - enigma
If you have small hab and no minerals - alien miner.
If you're WM - MCM

etc....

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