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"Termination of alliance" Mon, 07 April 2003 05:03 Go to next message
Steve1

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia
Put your reading glasses on. This is a long one.


From the minister of information's office:
As per the message pane, Cheekybuggers would like to publicly announce that we have an alliance with Luap's.
Many of our populace weren't happy with various deeds performed by the Luap's but there was always the noisy minority whom loudly and for all to hear declared absolute support for them.

One scandal after another found that the Luap's had secretly
infiltrated all levels of industry and government to provide themselves with the right kind of support.

Finally it was put to the ballot and the outcome was that 98.3% of the population voted to end the futile alliance between the trustworthy Cheekybuggers and the dastardly Luap empire. Surprised

Cheekybuggers would like to announce therefore that the alliance is ended with three years notice provided.
Meaning that we may attack each other (or not) in the year 2459. Mad Mad Mad

Cheekybuggers would also like to list in detail the reasons for our decision:

a) A few years ago, we found that the Luap's had switched us from friendly to either neutral or enemy (we're not sure which). We became aware of this for two reasons. Firstly an unarmed scout was decimated by one of their destroyers and secondly another was destroyed in crossing a Luap minefield. This was claimed to be accidental and perhaps it was ???? Rolling Eyes

b) Cheekybuggers had an agreement for tech exchange with the Luap's.
The agreement went as such: Luap's were going to provide elec11 in exchange for the Cheekbuggers providing prop12. We were originally on elec6 and after many emails back and forth and numerous delays were finally given elec8 (12 x elec8 scrappers).
The Luap's were on prop6 and were given enough scrappers to get them up to prop10 or 11 (We lost track at some point).
Cheekybuggers were also generous enough to provide the Luap's with 12 x energy6 scrappers (I believe it was energy scrappers but will stand to be corrected on that one).
We didn't complete the order (up to prop12) when it started to seem like we may not get all that was agreed to.
When asked about this, this Luap's didn't at first reply. When prompted again and they finally did reply it was to impose new conditions on the agreement. We weren't allowed to exchange elec11 with anyone else.
Cheekbuggers explained that we already had an agreement with another race to provide elec11 in exchange for other tech.
Although this was outside of the original agreement we also understood their position and suggested that we could get elec11 ourselves in two turns anyway, so perhaps they would like
to provide something else.
From then on, the Luap's have been silent and have discontinued all further communications with Cheekybuggers. Crying or Very Sad

c) The grab is now on for the Weader planets. I would normally expect to negotiate a deal with an ally over planetary rights but the Luap's have pushed right across the Weader territory to
apparently claim it all as their own.
The only three races that truly have a border with Weader, are Luap's, Nexus and Cheekybuggers.
Nexus and Cheekybuggers are currently in negotiations for planetary rights and contrary to popular belief, we are not even allies !
Yet Cheekybuggers one true ally is excluding us from any claim at all.
Now this shouldn't be surprising to any other race.
With the withdrawal of the Ygrinni from the galaxy, the Luap's claimed all of that as their territory as well. Shocked

The following are a couple of extracts from this forum:


****************************
YGRINI ATTACKS!

The follow report was issued today from Military Command :

* Three Luap DD's returning from escort duty stopped over at Puma to avoid a small cosmic storm.
Upon arrival, a armed Ygrini Orbital Fort fired torpedoes at them. The Luap DD's received substantial damage and lost many of its crewmembers. The Luap DD commanders were able to recover from this surprise attack and return fire, destroying this rogue Ygrini colony.
However, a single rogue colony was not the case. We soon got reports of a Ygrini DD attacking a Luap unarmed scout at Norm. The scout was able to outrun the DD and escaped without harm.
This second attack confirmed our deepest fears. The Ygrini, our one time friend and mutual protection partner has turned against us.

No word on a Diplomatic solution to this crisis. But as of today, The Luap War Machine rolls into action against the sinister Ygrini .


- and this -


Military commanders also announced the presence of many races scout reporters inside engagement zone. A reminder that all
non-Luap vessels in area are susceptible to friendly fire and are their at own risk.
****************************


Now does anyone actually believe that the Ygrinni were the aggressor here ?

Furthermore we didn't think much of the Luap's "engagement zone" but thought, well so what, it's nowhere near our territory, so what has it got to do with us. Smile

Now the Weader territory is a different story altogether.
Since the Luap's have chosen to leave themselves out of the negotiations, they don't have a choice in what planets remain theirs. Any planets that Cheekybuggers negotiate for with Nexus
will, if necessary, be taken by force from the dastardly Luap's.
What Nexus do with their negotiated planets is up to them and is none of our concern. Razz

Please note that this is not intended as a smear campaign and that we are not asking other races to get involved.
Our intention is to present our case for what was said and done and also to establish a basis for possible hostile actions against the Luap's.
We would like to point out though, that this forum is not an inter dimensional court or the United planets. Smile

Cheekybuggers feel wronged and intend to take the necessary steps to help us feel less aggrieved. Evil or Very Mad
If any other race disagrees with our intentions, then we accept your point of view but are not likely to change our stance on the matter.
We would be interested to hear your point of view however. Smile

Regards - Steve

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Re: "Termination of alliance" Mon, 07 April 2003 07:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JamesWD is currently offline JamesWD

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 99
Registered: November 2002
Location: Northampton, UK

Quote:

The only three races that truly have a border with Weader, are Luap's, Nexus and Cheekybuggers.


I would consider I have a border with them. I might get involved in this lovely squabble for planets, but I do hope to avoid nastiness.

Actually, why can't species carve up the planets without resorting to violence (well, at least make an effort to do so?)

Obviously, although Wead space is not my own, it is not another species either, so I do not consider myself in breach of any ceasefires with other species....(he says looking at the Nexus...)



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Land Grab Mon, 07 April 2003 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OOMatter is currently offline OOMatter

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 71
Registered: January 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Quote:

The grab is now on for the Weader planets. I would normally expect to negotiate a deal with an ally over planetary rights but the Luap's have pushed right across the Weader territory to
apparently claim it all as their own.
The only three races that truly have a border with Weader, are Luap's, Nexus and Cheekybuggers.
Nexus and Cheekybuggers are currently in negotiations for planetary rights and contrary to popular belief, we are not even allies !



What your message seems to be is a statement of intent to wage war against the Luaps and the Weader. That makes you the aggressor in this situation as far as I can see. However, your relations with the Luaps is your business. Although it's useful to know, it has little bearing on what I see as the real concern, the parceling out of the (leaderless) Weader empire.

I am a bit surprised at your eagerness to grab more planets since your empire already controls the largest area of space and you have a considerable amount of uninhabited planets within that space. I had not planned on attacking the Weader as they have been friendly with the Altoids, but in light of current events it would seem that it's only prudent to get involved.

Quote:

Since the Luap's have chosen to leave themselves out of the negotiations, they don't have a choice in what planets remain theirs. Any planets that Cheekybuggers negotiate for with Nexus
will, if necessary, be taken by force from the dastardly Luap's.
What Nexus do with their negotiated planets is up to them and is none of our concern.


My biggest concern is that you seem to have already claimed the entire Weader region as your own and have decided that it's up to you and Nexus to decide what is to be done with it. Your claim is based on the perception that only you, Nexus, and Luap have a border with the Weader. As James has already mentioned, this is untrue. As far as I can tell only race that doesn't have a shared border with the Weader is the YapYaps.

Therefore, since you did not include the Hirota and the Altoids in your discussions I don't see how you can give your claim any more validity than that of the Luaps. If anyone attempts to claim Weader planets close to/within my borders without contacting me about it first I will take it as an act of aggression. Now if you wish to involve the the Hirota and the Altoids in your discussions I will be happy to participate in working on a fair and even distribution, since diplomacy is preferable to violence.







Because OOMATTER

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Re: "Termination of alliance" Mon, 07 April 2003 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nexus One is currently offline Nexus One

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 75
Registered: December 2002
Location: Szczecin, Poland
JamesWD wrote on Mon, 07 April 2003 13:00


Obviously, although Wead space is not my own, it is not another species either, so I do not consider myself in breach of any ceasefires with other species....(he says looking at the Nexus...)


We cannot say if Hirota's claim to any ex-Weader's planet is justified or not - we simply do not know. We see however no objection in letting Hirotan people take over some of ex-Weader's planets as long as border agreement is obeyed from their side. The planets located within the space we used to share with the Weaders and therefore on the our side of the border with Hirota cannot for obvious reasons be a subject of any claim from Hirota. As for the others planets - Hirota should take up negotiations with other respective parties.

Reg. the distribution of planets with other races.
We can confirm that the negotiations are under way with both the governments of Luap and Cheekybuggers. There are already positive results from the latter race, but we do hope the same will be achieved with the Luap.
At the moment we do not want to express any statement regarding the present political situation the species are involved in.

Ref. the message from Altoids.
We did not send you any proposition for distrubution (we prefer this word rather then "grabbing") as there is no object for discussion at the moment. However should you find it appropriate we invite you to start up the negociations.

Kind regards,
Nexus One.



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Re: "Termination of alliance" Mon, 07 April 2003 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OOMatter is currently offline OOMatter

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 71
Registered: January 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Nexus One wrote on Mon, 07 April 2003 12:52


Ref. the message from Altoids.
We did not send you any proposition for distrubution (we prefer this word rather then "grabbing") as there is no object for discussion at the moment. However should you find it appropriate we invite you to start up the negociations.


I would greatly appreciate if you would clarify how you determine where a planet is to be "distributed"? That was not stated at any point. From my observations it would seem that a military force (please be careful where you fly those bombers) is required although the Cheekybugger message I was replying to indicated that having shared borders with the Weader was the determining factor. The message also seemed to indicate that all Weader planets were involved in the negotiations. That would be unacceptable. I hope we can clear this up quickly so that this doesn't degenerate into a race to see who can grab the most the fastest.


[Updated on: Mon, 07 April 2003 16:27]




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Re: "Termination of alliance" Mon, 07 April 2003 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nexus One is currently offline Nexus One

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 75
Registered: December 2002
Location: Szczecin, Poland
[quote title=OOMatter wrote on Mon, 07 April 2003 22:26I would greatly appreciate if you would clarify how you determine where a planet is to be "distributed"? That was not stated at any point. From my observations it would seem that a military force (please be careful where you fly those bombers) is required although the Cheekybugger message I was replying to indicated that having shared borders with the Weader was the determining factor. The message also seemed to indicate that all Weader planets were involved in the negotiations. That would be unacceptable. I hope we can clear this up quickly so that this doesn't degenerate into a race to see who can grab the most the fastest.[/quote]

We rush to inform you that our negotiation with Luap (we believe you refer to this part of ex-Weader's space) are connected to reestablishing a new border with them rather then dividing the Weader's pie. We did not proposed you a new border to you in this corner of universe as we see only one your planet which is rather an enclave in Luap's and ex-Weader's worlds. We are far from posing a claim or even to negotiate on all Weader's space and planets. We felt somewhat important to protect the planets which we gave away to Weader during separate negotiations with them, but they are all located within what we used to considered as intersettling space with the Weader.
The planet our bombers are heading to is less then 30 l.y. from our other planet. Does it give us some rights to take up negotiations with Luap, especially that their fleet of bombers will arrive to the planet at the same time?
We hope to cast more light on our intentions and that we were able to clarify your doubts about our policy. If there are more issues you would like to discuss with us - we ask you to contact us on this forum or by private messages.

Kind regards,
Nexus One.



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Re: Land Grab Tue, 08 April 2003 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve1

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia
I don't think that Cheekybuggers have the largest amount of space of any race, but yes there are quite a few uncolonised planets within our territory. We probably don't have as wide a hab range as some others.

Altoids said:
"Therefore, since you did not include the Hirota and the Altoids in your discussions I don't see how you can give your claim any more validity than that of the Luaps. If anyone attempts to claim Weader planets close to/within my borders without contacting me about it first I will take it as an act of aggression. Now if you wish to involve the the Hirota and the Altoids in your discussions I will be happy to participate in working on a fair and even distribution, since diplomacy is preferable to violence."

and that's a fair enough comment !
You need not be concerned about Cheekybuggers taking Weader planets near Altoid space. That is a very long way from our territory and it would take us years just to get there.

Altoids also made mention of our intention to wage war against Weader and the Luap's.
Well it doesn't count against Weader as he seems to have disappeared.
We do feel though, that we have raised some valid concerns about the Luap's activities as per the original posting.

Now for the record, Cheekybuggers is terminating the alliance we have with the Luap's and have not declared war !
Whether war comes about totally depends on the Luap response to this crisis.
So far the Luap's have chosen not to respond at all.

Cheekybuggers also feels entitled to compensation for technology provided. Luap's and Cheekybuggers had an agreement which the Luap's, rather deviously, chose not to uphold (as per our original posting).


Regards - Steve







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icon10.gif  Re: "Termination of alliance" Tue, 08 April 2003 02:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
voodoo8476 is currently offline voodoo8476

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 47
Registered: January 2003
Location: Denver, CO

Please take the time to read Luap News Flash

Cheekybuggers would like to announce therefore that the alliance is ended with three years notice provided.
Meaning that we may attack each other (or not) in the year 2459


The Luap will set CheekyBuggers status to Neutral on 2459. Warships inside remaining Wearderulium territory will have orders only to fire on enemies. All CheekyBugger scouts inside Luap territory after 2459 will be targeted. (that is if I see them Very Happy ) This is not a Declaration of War.

A few years ago, we found that the Luap's had switched us from friendly to either neutral or enemy (we're not sure which). We became aware of this for two reasons. Firstly an unarmed scout was decimated by one of their destroyers and secondly another was destroyed in crossing a Luap minefield. This was claimed to be accidental and perhaps it was ????

The minefield incident can be confirmed by the Luap. However, no Luap Warship has ever attacked any CheekyBugger vessel, armed or unarmed. Perhaps the CheekyBuggers refer to the Altoid DD attack? Rolling Eyes

Cheekybuggers had an agreement for tech exchange with the Luap's.
The agreement went as such: Luap's were going to provide elec11 in exchange for the Cheekbuggers providing prop12. We were originally on elec6 and after many emails back and forth and numerous delays were finally given elec8 (12 x elec8 scrappers).
The Luap's were on prop6 and were given enough scrappers to get them up to prop10 or 11 (We lost track at some point).
Cheekybuggers were also generous enough to provide the Luap's with 12 x energy6 scrappers (I believe it was energy scrappers but will stand to be corrected on that one).
We didn't complete the order (up to prop12) when it started to seem like we may not get all that was agreed to.
When asked about this, this Luap's didn't at first reply. When prompted again and they finally did reply it was to impose new conditions on the agreement. We weren't allowed to exchange elec11 with anyone else.
Cheekbuggers explained that we already had an agreement with another race to provide elec11 in exchange for other tech.
Although this was outside of the original agreement we also understood their position and suggested that we could get elec11 ourselves in two turns anyway, so perhaps they would like
to provide something else.
From then on, the Luap's have been silent and have discontinued all further communications with Cheekybuggers.


Again the Luap do not contest these events. Technology trade and research has been disrupted by emergency war conditions and lack of ship slots for scrappers. We make no attempt to justify our actions and understand the CheekyBugger’s anger regarding our silence. We can only say that the threat of War has gotten out attention Shocked , and we will open dialogue with CheekyBugger authorities again if possible.

The grab is now on for the Weader planets. I would normally expect to negotiate a deal with an ally over planetary rights but the Luap's have pushed right across the Weader territory to
apparently claim it all as their own.
The only three races that truly have a border with Weader, are Luap's, Nexus and Cheekybuggers.
Nexus and Cheekybuggers are currently in negotiations for planetary rights and contrary to popular belief, we are not even allies !
Yet Cheekybuggers one true ally is excluding us from any claim at all.
Now this shouldn't be surprising to any other race.
With the withdrawal of the Ygrinni from the galaxy, the Luap's claimed all of that as their territory as well. Now the Weader territory is a different story altogether. Since the Luap's have chosen to leave themselves out of the negotiations, they don't have a choice in what planets remain theirs. Any planets that Cheekybuggers negotiate for with Nexus
will, if necessary, be taken by force from the dastardly Luap's.
What Nexus do with their negotiated planets is up to them and is none of our concern.


Dastardly Luap? Confused2


























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Re: Land Grab Tue, 08 April 2003 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OOMatter is currently offline OOMatter

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 71
Registered: January 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Steve1 wrote on Mon, 07 April 2003 22:55

I don't think that Cheekybuggers have the largest amount of space of any race, but yes there are quite a few uncolonised planets within our territory. We probably don't have as wide a hab range as some others.


Well, according to the default measures used by both Stars! Notebook and Xtreme Borders you do have the most space (unless there has been a sudden change in planetary ownership). So, as long as you expect other races to get your approval before settling on uncolonized planets in your territory then I would consider all of those planets yours even if they aren't in your hab range. The reason I bring this up at all is because your previous messages seemed very intent on gaining as much new territory as possible to the point where you excluded the Hirota's obvious interests and my (perhaps not so obvious) interests as well.

Quote:

You need not be concerned about Cheekybuggers taking Weader planets near Altoid space. That is a very long way from our territory and it would take us years just to get there.


It's good to know that you aren't planning on taking all that space, but at what point do you expect other races to have to negotiate with you? Right now? When they have a colonizer built and routed? Or when your fleets are about to come in conflict over a planet?

Quote:


Well it doesn't count against Weader as he seems to have disappeared.


At what point doesn't it count?



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Re: Land Grab Wed, 09 April 2003 03:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve1

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia
Altoids have no need to have such a belligerent towards Cheekybuggers.

It is in fact Cheekbuggers whom were hard done by in the tech trade with the Luap's.
It is in fact the Luap's whom were the aggressor with both Ygrinni and Weader. It's also the Luap's whom terminated communications with Cheekybuggers (whilst we were still supposedly allied).

As for negotiations, we have attempted to negotiate so far with Nexus and Hirota for planetary rights.
The Luap's don't appear to be interested in negotiating planetary rights but rather having other races make "reasonable requests" through the Luap high command for planets.
Cheekybuggers will not be "requesting" any such thing from Luap's but welcome the Luap's to the negotiating table to discuss the matter.
To be clear, our objection is to the Luap claim, to all or almost all of Weader space. In Cheekybuggers book, the territory is not the Luap's by right but is open to negotiation.

Altoids said:
"It's good to know that you aren't planning on taking all that space, but at what point do you expect other races to have to negotiate with you? Right now? When they have a colonizer built and routed? Or when your fleets are about to come in conflict over a planet? "

As mentioned previously we do not consider the Altoid/Weader conjoining space as relevant as it's way too far from us, So whom are you trying to score points for here (Luap's perhaps)?

If on the other hand you were scoring points for Hirota then we take it back. As already mentioned, Cheekybuggers has attempted to contact the Hirota but haven't yet heard back from them.

So since we're all being honest.
Do the Luap's and Altoids have a secret alliance ?

By our latest count, The Altoids have ownership of 55+ planets (the actual count is probably quite a bit higher than that). That's more than us, that's for sure.
So your complaints about our territorial space have been duly noted.

Please also be aware that the programs you use (notebook and whatever that other one was) may be including some of the intermingled space with the Hirota and Weader as Cheekybugger territory. Our three races have intermingled quite a bit so we request that you take that into account.

Our point about it not counting with Weader was that it can't be called war against them because they're no longer a human controlled race, so taking planets from them "doesn't count".
If you were meaning though, that Weader may in fact be returning to the game, then I suggest you criticise your ally first, as the Luap's are the ones whom already have made a grab for Weader planets.

We hate to point out the obvious here but in Cheekybuggers opinion it could just as easily have been the Altoids that were attacked by the Luap's.
We only ask that you consider this:

- They were friendly (by their own admission) with Ygrinni at one stage, but then chose to attack this peace loving race.

- The Luap's almost had a confrontation with Nexus, in which Cheekybuggers offered to act as intermediary to try to resolve the dispute (how we wish we had stayed out of that one).

- Weader was next. Openly attacked over some border dispute.
Wonder who started that?

- They also had an alliance and an agreement on tech trade with Cheekybuggers which both went awry.


How could it be that the Luap's are so unlucky.
Perhaps it's because they are indeed the aggressors.
We only ask that the Altoids consider all of this information and draw their own conclusions.
Fact is, the Altoids may escape being attacked by the Luap's for the entire game. Maybe the Luap's will never break the alliance with you.
I mean let's face it, they need to have a couple of friends in the galaxy.


Regards - Steve

















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to clarify Wed, 09 April 2003 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OOMatter is currently offline OOMatter

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 71
Registered: January 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Steve1 wrote on Wed, 09 April 2003 00:53

Altoids have no need to have such a belligerent towards Cheekybuggers.


I'm sorry if you feel that I'm being belligerent, and I realize that the main topic of your message was to voice your complaints over the Luaps. I was merely responding to what looked to me like you were claiming the right to distribute all of the Weader territory with your statements:
Steve1


The only three races that truly have a border with Weader, are Luap's, Nexus and Cheekybuggers.
Nexus and Cheekybuggers are currently in negotiations for planetary rights....
Now the Weader territory is a different story altogether.
Since the Luap's have chosen to leave themselves out of the negotiations, they don't have a choice in what planets remain theirs. Any planets that Cheekybuggers negotiate for with Nexus
will, if necessary, be taken by force from the dastardly Luap's.


Steve1

As mentioned previously we do not consider the Altoid/Weader conjoining space as relevant as it's way too far from us, So whom are you trying to score points for here (Luap's perhaps)?


I wasn't trying to score points for anyone. While you said that you were not interested in the area closest to the Altoids, you did not mention the extent of your claims. I was just trying to determine at what point you would expect me (or anyone else) to contact you for clearance to take over a Weader planet.

Steve1

It is in fact Cheekbuggers whom were hard done by in the tech trade with the Luap's.
It is in fact the Luap's whom were the aggressor with both Ygrinni and Weader. It's also the Luap's whom terminated communications with Cheekybuggers (whilst we were still supposedly allied).


I don't believe that I've argued against any of these points.

Steve1

To be clear, our objection is to the Luap claim, to all or almost all of Weader space. In Cheekybuggers book, the territory is not the Luap's by right but is open to negotiation.


I actually thought that it was objectionable for anyone to claim any of Weader space since AFAIK no one has heard from MG. It seems like a declaration of war to me. You are the one who posted a public message about the distribution, so that you are the one I responded to. Since it seems to be the majority view I am going to take the planets closest/within Altoid territory before someone else does.

Steve1

So since we're all being honest.
Do the Luap's and Altoids have a secret alliance ?


I wasn't aware that everyone was declaring all of their diplomatic relations right now. But the Altoids don't have any special allies, only trade agreements and nonaggression agreements. I wasn't aware that I was defending the Luaps, I thought I was just responding to the comments you made which affected me.

Steve1

By our latest count, The Altoids have ownership of 55+ planets (the actual count is probably quite a bit higher than that). That's more than us, that's for sure.
So your complaints about our territorial space have been duly noted.


Yes the Altoids do have over 55 colonies, you have 54 and still growing. The difference is that we don't have lots of empty planets which we claim ownership of. If you don't claim those uncolonized planets then it is a different situation. Also over 20 of my colonies are out of my hab range and they were only colonized because of lack of nonviolent expansion options. Making them livable is quite a drain on my resources so I wouldn't consider them an asset right now. In fact, I would gladly trade many of them for more habitable worlds.

Steve1

We hate to point out the obvious here but in Cheekybuggers opinion it could just as easily have been the Altoids that were attacked by the Luap's.


I'm well aware of this. I'm also aware that my closest neighbor has a large military force which they have also used offensively (although their opponent didn't quit). It doesn't mean that I won't trade with either of them if I feel that it is to my benefit. They have both been friendly to me.

I also know that every other race has begun to increase their military. The presence of BBs has not gone unnoticed. That's the reason that I have the minefields that you have complained about previously. That's also the reason that I'm having to waste my resources building a defensive fleet.

I hope that I've cleared up the situation somewhat.




Because OOMATTER

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icon4.gif  Re: "Termination of alliance" Wed, 09 April 2003 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
voodoo8476 is currently offline voodoo8476

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 47
Registered: January 2003
Location: Denver, CO

OK, Sorry this is so long.

Greetings sky2 races,

The Luap will attempt to address some of the issues.

We regret that so many races now are mixing words over the Luap invasion of the Weaderulium. Sad It is bound to happen when races of mixed habitation values all want a piece of the Weader Pie. As stated before we expected neighbors of the Weader to take those planets that border their territory and in some cases fall within their territory from previous inter-colonization. Those planets deep within Wead territory we assumed would go to those who could get there first. Borders and inter-colonization could be discussed easier after ownership was established.

What disturbs the Luap most is the assumption by many races that these planets should be negotiated for and divided equally. Why? In 2400 the Luap did not participate in the equal division of unoccupied planets in the universe. Did everyone else? Why would we now assume that equal distribution is mandatory? And how is this planetary distribution being decided? By who is closest? By who whines the loudest? By who threatens the most? Are the CheekyBuggers or another race holding a raffle?

So what determines ownership? Is it yours if the CheekyBuggers agree it is? Is it yours if you politely ask for it? What about the presences of war fleets? What if you populate the planet? Can anyone answer this? The Luap view is that colonization of a planet indicates ownership. And attacking of such colonies is an act of war.

Luap war ships in the Weader area have orders to attack only Weaderulim. And any races armed or unarmed vessels will be free to move about and colonize those planets they can. We will list here (at possible peril to our colonizers and war fleets) our current plan for colonization of Weader planets.

Luap are in route to attack and colonize the following planets:

Dharma
Spittle
Wavell
Costello
Uranium (pending Nexus plans)
Buckshot
Garp
Sequim 3
Phi

We are reluctant to negotiate over these, however any races with plans to colonize any of the listed planets are free to contact us and discuss alternate plans based on habitation and strategic values.


To the CheekyBuggers :

Scorn and defiance; slight regard, contempt, and any thing that may not misbecome The mighty Luap (stolen from Shakespeare's Henry V)( I always loved that line)

The intentional maligning of the Luap intent and integrity is most disturbing. We have addressed your complaints in a previous post. We have even accepted responsibility for your only valid complaint. (The delayed trade issue) Yet you continue your attempts to justify your threats and rally other races against.

You also refused to contact Luap High Command to request planets. How do you propose we initiate dialogue? Must we request planets from you? We are not below that, and hope our disclosed plans can give us all a starting point. How else can a peaceful negotiation start?

You state that "To be clear, our objection is to the Luap claim, to all or almost all of Weader space. In Cheekybuggers book, the territory is not the Luap's by right but is open to negotiation." What claim did we make? You are the only race appearing to claim territory that you have made no attempts to own. Your race seems to be the one demanding all races contact you prior to claiming any Weader planets.
Is all of this just a ruse to start hostilities? Is it jealousy of the Luaps initiative, and lack of your own? Is it the fear of "Who is Next?"


We can assure all races that all of the Luaps intentional aggressions have been provoked and justified.
And that continued slanderous remarks will most likely result in a new confusing planet distribution process.

The Luap currently have no intensions of going to war against any race. The CheekyBugger and Nexus peace agreements both appear to be cancelled as of 2459 and 2461 respectively. Both races have indicated that this is not a war declaration. Does that mean we set to neutral? Does it mean we leave set as friend? Does it mean get busy putting up defenses because we are coming to get you?

We look forward to discussing these issues publicly or privately,
Regards,

The Luap

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Re: "Termination of alliance" Thu, 10 April 2003 07:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nexus One is currently offline Nexus One

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 75
Registered: December 2002
Location: Szczecin, Poland
Luap wrote:
Luap are in route to attack and colonize the following planets:

Dharma
Spittle
Wavell
Costello
Uranium (pending Nexus plans)
Buckshot
Garp
Sequim 3
Phi


We are glad you did not put our County Seat on the list.
What do you exactly mean by "pending Nexus plan". You put your fleet of 100+ vessels (including bombers and battlecruisers) on the planet, so what you are expecting us to say? We proposed you, in our opinion, a very fair border, leaving you a great deal of ex-Weader's planets to the South (to take them or to share with others), but your reluctance and insinuations were at least arrogant.

Luap wrote:
The Luap currently have no intensions of going to war against any race. The CheekyBugger and Nexus peace agreements both appear to be cancelled as of 2459 and 2461 respectively. Both races have indicated that this is not a war declaration. Does that mean we set to neutral? Does it mean we leave set as friend? Does it mean get busy putting up defenses because we are coming to get you?

We will put your race from friend to neutral in 2458, so you have one year to remove your vessels from the vicinity of our planets and minefields, which will be activated in the given year. All our vessels operating close to your border will be instructed to attack only Enemies, so none of your vessel will be targeted. We do not want to fight, as our intention is to create an appropriate "buffer" zone so our colonists could feel safer. We believe you will do the same toward us, however none of our vessel in operating in your space currently (and none is planned to).

We do hope our relations could be brought to normal one day, but it requires cooperation from both sides. We feel we did our best.

Kind regards,
Nexus One.


[Updated on: Thu, 10 April 2003 07:58]




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Re: "Termination of alliance" Sun, 13 April 2003 06:09 Go to previous message
Steve1

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 240
Registered: January 2003
Location: Australia
**** News Flash ****

Cheekybuggers discovers an advance fleet of Luap warships at Dharma. Mad

According to a quote from the minister of defense, "these Luap warships are just too close to our border and are well within range of a number of Cheekybugger planets."
She also acknowledged a successfull strike against them with no apparent Cheekbugger casualties. Smile

Luap's said:
"So what determines ownership? Is it yours if the CheekyBuggers agree it is? "

To be perfectly clear, Cheekybuggers is in the same position as any other race. Getting agreement from Cheekbuggers for a given planet doesn't mean that your race won't have to negotiate with other races whom have such an interest. Far from it.
The fact that we're open to negotiation does not mean that Cheekbuggers lay claim to Weader space. It does mean that we have an interest in certain planets and we would "like" to discuss the matter.

On the other hand, the dastardly Luap's force march across Weader space as if to claim it all as their own and then have the gall to demand all other races wanting to lay claim to "their" planets request approval for colonisation.
Oh yes, the Luap's did say they accept some colonisation from other races for planets that are near their borders, but still claim the bulk of Luap space as their own.
Cheekybuggers challenge this overzealous territorial claim of the Luap's upon Weader space.

After all these points raised Cheekybuggers, being fair minded, would like to acknowledge our error in accusing the Luap's of destroying a scout of ours by one of their destroyers.
There were a couple of events that precipitated this incorrect accusation that apparently caused some confusion in the matter.
We did in fact, have to review a number of previous communications to confirm this, but yes we wholeheartedly agree with the Luap's assertion.


Luap's said:
"Is it the fear of "Who is Next?"

Umm yes it is and why shouldn't it be ?
It's a fact that the Luap's have attacked both the peace loving Ygrinni and the Weader.
Should Cheekybuggers expect to be treated any better ?
We had an alliance and a tech trade agreement with the Luap's that somehow both fell over. Cheekybuggers fulfilled their part of the tech trade and then some (until we realised that there was little chance of getting what was agreed to).
Cheekybuggers, in good faith, kept to our part of the alliance, until the Luap's went silent on us (at which point we terminated the alliance for our own safety).

Cheekybuggers also note that the Luap's want only the best Weader planets. Apparently the rest of us can have the spoils (as long as you get Luap approval).

From the minister of cultural affairs:
Citizens rejoice at the small but significant victory over the dastardly Luap's. A tiny percentage of people still remain dissatisfied at their inability to import such Luap inventions as pleasure borgs and multi contained steroids, but the vast majority of upstanding and worthy citizens recognise the overwhelming benefits of standing on our own two feet.


Regards - Cheekybuggers








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