| Narn |
Sun, 08 April 2007 14:47  |
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| Andreas: |
Quick mail to get the ball rolling, I guess mostly it depends on Patrick though:
-assuming the Spoo can get only 1-2 more planets in Narn space before the SA takes over
-how about burying the hatchet and making peace with the Narn?
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What for?
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-not much they can contribute to any warfighting for a long time, but if we gift them scouts all over the place we can use their instant identification to learn the ship designs. Surely would have helped us against the Vorlons...
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Good idea.
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-does he have capacitors yet? Probably not, with them he would actually stand a chance with beamers (895 damage for a stack of Yaks)
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Narn have weap7 = black jacks. If Hyaks' CCs are really only yaki-ones, Narn should have no problem defending their space.
@Andreas, no wonder you have mental problems attacking somebody... you talk too much with the target *grin* I prefer communication via: the battlegrid, type of ships, deployment of fleets etc.
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| Narn & Hyak |
Mon, 09 April 2007 15:24  |
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| 09.04.2007, John wrote: |
The risky way of giving Narn a chance does not absolutely require anyone else but if the Battlegrid crowding is applied the bombers would be destroyed whether it works or not & chances of victory would be much higher.
It works thus:
Sodium is 90ly from Putty so the trip between them must be at warp 10. If:- The Privateer + MF make it from Putty to Sodium & back with a load of iron at warp 10.
- Weap8 is researched this year to reduce ship cost (they have BET) - this does not reduce the 2 year DD build because of the iron shortage at Putty in 1st 2 years.
- Sodium: 8 DD BJs are built this year + 9 next year - both must make it to Putty at warp 10
- Putty: 2 DD BJ are built this year, 10 next year & 18 in 2466 (dependant upon iron making it)
If all 4 of the warp 10 trips make it that would give:
Hyaks: 2 fleets (a) 16 Hipper IV + 6 B-17s & (b) 8 Hipper IV + 6 Hipper III
Narn: 3 fleets (a) 20 DD BJ, (b) 18 DD BJ & (c) 9 DD BJ
Expected Results:- without Battlegrid crowding/bombers not targeted: 30% chance of win, 70% chance of loss (10-15 Hipper IVs survive)
- without Battlegrid crowding/bombers targeted using 20 DDs: 0% chance of win, 100% chance of loss (15-20 Hipper IVs survive). 60% chance of killing bombers
- with Battlegrid crowding & base equiped with 64 Betas: 70% chance of win, 30% chance of loss (2-8 Hipper IVs survive), 100% chance of killing bombers
NOTE: If less than 40 DD BJs are available then Hyak will nearly always win with only a few CCs lost.
If you want to discard the Narn instead then fine, I won't push it.
John/Llort
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| Re: Narn & Hyak |
Mon, 09 April 2007 17:26 |
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SPOO says:
Putty is ours!
But some more turns we may wait to make it a splendid Spoo-meadow.
The Hyak are the bigger problem and I am getting a bit trigger happy, after all I have 4 xray-DDs in the area *grin*
But I don't want to start hostilities without... (not sure wether this is) notice or having your consent.
Assessment of the situation
We have proposed a NAP-border to the Vorlons, they have sent us their border... since then we haven't heard from then. Since I prefer communication via ship deployment anyway, no answere is really necessary from the Vorlons because it is obvious what's happening:
They try to push a border of their liking and in this process they can see wether- they might just advance on (no response from us)
- trigger hostilities from us and go back to negotiations
- trigger hostilities from us and start war
With 6 b17-bombers, 31 CCs and lots of pop they probably feel like they can go either way.
The most likely Vorlon plan is to push as far as possible while staying on friendly footage with us and then they'll try to single out the next one of us. While we are definetly not ready for war in the center and along our borders with the Vorlon alliance, it is unlikely that our situation will improve by waiting and leaving the initiative to the Vorlon alliance.
The SPOOmun Complat doesn't like this Vorlon approach nor do we like to share our prey (Narn). The Hyaks might be a bit too overconfident and we can surely make it a bit more difficult for them, especially since we have to fight their CCs anyway, better to start hostilities before they will have merged their fleets.
Battle Plan
I doubt that everything will work out as described below but better a plan that doesn't survive contact with the enemy than no plan at all.
2463-65:
The Narn HW station is ok as it is until the arrival of the bombers and can fence off an attack of the Hyak CCs roaming space around the HW.
SPOOmun Complat goes into offense with the mighty xray-DDs:- tries to hunt down Ipsha-scout (now in orbit of Hydrogen).
- attacks Hyak fleet #40 (LF+col+sfx, cargo: 766kt) near Corvus heading for Mountbatten
- conqueres Narn planet Kan
- gets into position for pop-drops onto Hyak planets Simple and Mitchell
2464:
After seeing the battle reports everything might happen. Perhaps SPOOmun Complat will indeed try the pop-drops on the small Hyak colonies, hunting other freighers without escort. Scouts will get orders to be trasnfered to Gaim and Llort.
2466::
ETA at Narn HW Putty of 6 Hyak b17-bombers. Also arriving Gaim and Llort scouts. Narn need 1 armed ships with battleorders to attack all enemies (Gaim, Llort, Hyak, Spoo BUT Vorlons and Ipsha should be neutral). Narn HW station keeps the 2 slots of betas. I would exchange the yakis with Black Jacks. If the Hyak attack with all their CCs merged, the Narn should get 2, perhaps 3 shots at the Hayk bombers which is fine.
1 Minibari - 2 Dilgar - 3 Centauri - 4 Earth - 5 Drakh - 6 Vorlon - 7 Gaim - 8 Llort
9 Hyak - 10 Pak - 11 Gate - 12 Ind.Mars - 13 Shadow - 14 Spoo - 15 Ipsha - 16 Narn
5:
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . 1 . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. 3 . . . . . . 4 .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . 5 . . . 2 . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
Spoo has enough scouts to transfer 1 each to Gaim and Llort which leads to the following battlefield:
1 Gaim
2 Llort
3 Hyak
4 Spoo
5 Narn
Close enough for the Narn to kill off the bombers with betas. The Narn station as of now has 32 betas, capable to inflict around 328 dm per round, 6 b17-bombers have 1050 armour.
If we have the feeling that Ipsha or Ipsha & Vorlons may show up, we need to gamble.
2467:
Let's see wether the Narn get up a 2nd station and what's left of the Hyaks. Meanwhile also some Spoo-baz-FFs have arrived along the southern SPOOmun Complat frontier: not enough to fight a merged fleet of Hyak CCs but enough to force the Hyak CCs to keep together instead of making a wide-spread offense.
Misc: My gates at Chamber and Hydrogen are a blessing in so far that they allow the Spoo to bring in forces from their HW. On the other hand this can, of course, back fire, if the Vorlon alliance do the same. Well, warfare isn't without risks.
So, what do you think?
@John, do you think you could tell the Narn to change their relations accordingly?
[Updated on: Mon, 09 April 2007 21:21] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Narn & Hyak |
Mon, 09 April 2007 21:44 |
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Just a clarification: Llort/Narn have no formal relationship. I just offered advice to the Narn for the purpose of making life more difficult for the Hyaks. If SPOO can mow the Putty meadow then I say good! I just don't want it in Hyak hands.
I agree that the Hyaks are the biggest problem. I fully expect them to overtake the Vorlons as #1 before long.
I also agree with the SPOO assessment of the situ but I'm less sure of the Putty approach so:
1. Kill fleet #40 - I agree
2. Invade Simple, Mitchell (& any other 2K planets) - I agree
3. Invade Kan - I agree
4. Putty:
(i) As it stands I think the Hyaks will attack in '66 (orders in '65) tho they might wait a year to combine the 2 fleets into one. If they do that & the Narn build BJ destroyers then so do Narn + Narn can build more ships so it would probably work against the Hyaks.
(ii) I expect the 24xHipper IV to attack the base & the 6or7xHipper III to use default orders (if the Hyak are smart & I expect they are) so I don't think that the base BJs will play a part.
(iii) If the Putty base has only 32 Betas the SFXs (up to 10) will be killed first & then the bombers so only 2-3 bombers will be killed. The Hipper IVs will kill the base in battle round 2.
(iv) If there are no significant anti-Hyak warships present at Putty how do we kill the cruisers? or did you mean that the Narn should also build the BJ destroyers according to my plan as well?
BTW just a question: why neutral for Vorlons,Ipsha? They will take part in the battle if present regardless of the Narn relationship settings.
Note: A vorlon scout will arrive at Putty this year. It might be sensible to black them out as well as the Hyak scout there by Narn building a couple of warships. BTW current Narn relationships are Hyak=enemy, Ipsha=neutral, Vorlon=friend.
The Narn will probably do as I ask but I can't guarantee it.
Should we ask permission from the Narn to transfer some scouts to get ship designs?
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| Re: Narn & Hyak |
Mon, 09 April 2007 23:01 |
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| AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 10 April 2007 03:44 |
(ii) I expect the 24xHipper IV to attack the base & the 6or7xHipper III to use default orders (if the Hyak are smart & I expect they are) so I don't think that the base BJs will play a part.
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Sure. But since they don't know wether Narn will possibly equip his station with all bazookas, his yaki-CCs will get attack orders, too.
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(iii) If the Putty base has only 32 Betas the SFXs (up to 10) will be killed first & then the bombers so only 2-3 bombers will be killed.
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I am usually doing pencil&paper calculations and no real battle tests... I assumed the station would fire at the bombers first: most bora. Am I wrong?
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The Hipper IVs will kill the base in battle round 2.
(iv) If there are no significant anti-Hyak warships present at Putty how do we kill the cruisers? or did you mean that the Narn should also build the BJ destroyers according to my plan as well?
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Sure. Without the Narns' data I can't really say much about ship-production and left it to you.
In general, if the Narn can get rid of the bombers or most of them, they can fight down the CCs with one station after another with full shields and BJ or baz. And since the Hyak probably know this, it probably won't even be necessary/possible and Hyak retreating and waiting for new bombers.
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BTW just a question: why neutral for Vorlons,Ipsha? They will take part in the battle if present regardless of the Narn relationship settings.
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Ah, did I say neutral? Ahem, yes, even underlined. Friend was probably what I meant to keep them out of the fight... if that's possible. Not really sure since Hyak and Vorlon will be allied.
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Note: A vorlon scout will arrive at Putty this year. It might be sensible to black them out as well as the Hyak scout there by Narn building a couple of warships. BTW current Narn relationships are Hyak=enemy, Ipsha=neutral, Vorlon=friend.
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ok.
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The Narn will probably do as I ask but I can't guarantee it.
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Sure.
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Should we ask permission from the Narn to transfer some scouts to get ship designs?
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Well, this is probably not me you are asking *grin
[Updated on: Mon, 09 April 2007 23:05] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Narn & Hyak |
Tue, 10 April 2007 01:29 |
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The base will definitely attack the SFXs before the bombers. I think they're treated like shielded chaff? Anyway, I double checked it. Thus, I think it would be best to fit more Betas at Putty.
Any Vorlon or Ipsha observers at Putty will take part in the battle. The only non-participants would be if someone has mutual friend status with all the belligerants.
Sending a communique to Narn & asking them to make preparations.
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| Re: Narn |
Thu, 12 April 2007 18:45 |
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Since you are in a loose contact with the Narn, can't you hint at them to build better ships?
"Destroyer": If they drop the ridiculous armour, MJ and comp... they can build 1/3 more ships.
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| Re: Narn |
Thu, 12 April 2007 20:41 |
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Have hinted at such. The MJ(s) are not necessarily bad (depends on the situ) but the armour & computer are counter productive.
Not sure if he just build that DD at Putty, he also can't afford the iron - I suggested building 2 individual simple scouts with DLL7,Yak to kill the Vorlon,Hyak scouts. He didn't do that & didn't change the SPOO relationship so killed the wrong scout anyway.
I gave him a very specific design for the Blackjack DD.
Will talk to him about the folly of adding components that are useless/counter productive.
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