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Tact & Strat Thu, 22 March 2007 14:13 Go to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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After careful consideration and after closely listening to my tactical advisor's wisdom ("Attack! Attack! Attack!")...

The recent event of Shadows/Mars attacking the Gaim and all our more or less failed tries to communicate with the Shadows, indicate that the Shadow alliance is using the contrary strategy than the Vorlons:
  • Vorlons: They try to establish relations with the independent players of a kind that they don't need to worry about them. Thus they can focus their power on the Shadows without distractions. Additionally they use every chance to enlist the independent players against the Shadows and are willing to aid them for that purpose.

  • Shadows: They seem to seek victory by the rather longterm strategy of helping their allies to grow and expand... at the cost of the independ players. Logically this includes that they don't believe in helping those independent players nor do they view them as helpful temporary allies vs the Vorlons
Unfortunately this is almost the worst case scenario we can think of. Especially since we judge the Vorlon alliance the more dangerous one and we had somehow planned to rather help the Shadows.


As an immediate conclusion to this assumed Shadow strategy, SPOO told us to secure our northern flank (or die trying).

Initially I had hoped to come to a kind of agreement with the Shadows or a NAP with the Centauri to secure my northern flank against Centauri mineral packets. Obviously neither Shadows nor Centauri seem to be interested. And after the Marsians breaking their NAP with the Gaims without cancellation, I am rather relieved that the Spoomun Complat hasn't succeeded in negotiating a NAP with the Centauri.

Thus the SPOOmun Complat is preparing 2 high risk expeditions:
  • Foch:: 90k sighing SPOO believers ready for enlighted suicide are heading for Foch. Of course, they do it the proper SPOOmun Complat way: without any escorts since escorts would only show that they might fear death.

  • Franklin:: Since Franklin is defended by a dock, this mission needs an escort, as shameful as it might be. It was difficult to find enough members to take part in this mission. Finally SPOO himself had to make an announcement that every member part of the mission can truly abandon all hope and most of them, if not all, will surely die. But only after he declared that every possible survivor will be judged a martyr and granted a special place on the Meadows of Sighing, members of the SPOOmun Complat hurried up to enlist for this mission.



[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2007 17:34]

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Foch - Franklin Expedition Fri, 23 March 2007 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Commander

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It looks like the Franklin Expedition failed before even starting:

To succeed it would had been necessary to shoot down the LF from Garcia to Franklin at w7 which I had on my scanners in 2453. Meanwhile the LF got support form a sfx, raised its speed to w9 and arrives too early for my scary xray-freighter-hunter to catch it.

Mmmh...

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Gate Planets Wed, 28 March 2007 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Commander

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Greets,

can you give me an estimation when the gates at Chamber and Hydrogen will be ready?

btw: Is it also possible to ask the Gatekeepers to leave a planet again?

Regards,
Patrick (SPOOmun Complat)


answere

Chamber's gate will be ready next turn (=2459). Hydrogen will take 4-5 years (=2462/63].

If you destroy the gate, you can ask the gate race to leave - you have to maintain a ship in
orbit.
Steve

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Defending against Elders Wed, 28 March 2007 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The time is nearing those big bad Elders are allowed to attack us. And it's probably a good idea to share ideas how to defend ourselves:
  1. Minefields: The Spoo have started to produce FFs with 1 minelayer to litter the space with emphasis on incoming routes from Shadow and Gate planets (as far as this is possible in a too short time). All those minefields will be directed to the North. Using only 1 minelayer per FF is a rather cynical approach: cloaked Shadow ships have to destroy more minelayers which gives more warning. Smaller minefields add also up to more covered space: 3 x sqrt(50) = 21 ly (while sqrt(150) = 12 ly)
    The space the Spoo share with the Vorlons and allies I'll leave free of minefields for the moment.

  2. High Risk Planets: Planets habitable for Elders (Spoo has 2 of them) will be also terraformed to make them less attractive. This might work vs the Shadows but not vs the CA supported Vorlons.

  3. Scanning: Assuming elec 10 at least (or elec 12) even a JOAT has to rely more or less on chance to find those highly cloaked ships. As a indirect counter measure I'll continue trying to shoot down Shadow scouts (which I wouldn't recommend for Gaim/Llort at the moment but the Spoo can't really worsen their relationship with the Shadows).

  4. Warships: Well, perhaps when weap 8 comes in. Until then only light skirmishers.

  5. Diplomacy: Our strongest defense and so far I think we have done a good job. The mess starts when we have to go vs the Vorlons.

  6. Gates: Minefields, closing them (temporary), scanning...

  7. Elders' allies: ?

  8. NAPs: There is still the unanswered NAP-offer from the Vorlons... If Gaim/Llort want to try a NAP with Shadows + allies, it's probably needed to make sure to define a border to keep out Mars and Dilgar.

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Gaim/Llort & Shadow/Mars relations Thu, 29 March 2007 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Just a warning:

Shadows might be just stalling. Until you really get weap-tech, I would prepare for full scale war with Mars.

Even if Mars agrees on a NAP (most likely paired with crippling demands), I wouldn't trust the peace. Nor will you be really happy with the demands. And I fear until you have finished negotiations, 2463 will have come...

Mars certainly is launching a full-scale war vs Gaim from what I see on the scanners.

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Big bad Vorlonen fleet heading for Drakh HW Thu, 29 March 2007 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Look at the newest map or Drakh's m-file 2459. There is a big Vorlonen fleet heading for his HW.

Perhaps Gaim/Llort want to get included in the NAP-talks:
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=339 4&start=0&rid=775&S=c3fab34ed4cd584c04a56a970fe0 1e3c

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Re: Big bad Vorlonen fleet heading for Drakh HW Fri, 30 March 2007 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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I don't know what is possible against the Vorlon fleet but best guesses at designs: Shields could Bear?, Rng3 Beam could be HB?, Sappers could be Phased Sapper? torps could be Jugs?, Jammers could be J20?
BB 377Kt=IS-10(or TGD),OT,8xShield,6xEC,16xRng3 Beam,4xSapper (this design was used by Joseph in Diadochi Wars).
BB 869Kt=AD8,6xBSC,1xJammer,8xShield,16 torps,4xSapper (also used in Diadochi Wars but with IS-10). Could have used less computers & more jammers this time?
CC 158Kt=IS-10(or TGD), OT, 3xShield, 4xRng3 Beam, 2xSapper
CC 172Kt=a number of possibilities?
B-17:AD8,8xM80,Fuel (but I would have expected Cherries by now)?

I have no time this year to do any test bedding on it. My first thought is whether the bombers &/or freighters can be stopped.

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Re: Big bad Vorlonen fleet heading for Drakh HW Fri, 30 March 2007 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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AlexTheGreat wrote on Fri, 30 March 2007 07:16

I have no time this year to do any test bedding on it. My first thought is whether the bombers &/or freighters can be stopped.



Yeah... with betas and yakis and con6?

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Re: Battle Positions: Drakh HW & Vorlon attack Wed, 04 April 2007 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Commander

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According to those tables:

1) without Earth taking part (and assuming 1 Minibari - 2 Dilgar - 3 Centauri not neither) Drakh will be 1 and Vorlons 2 on the battle board
=> Drakh station is only in reach of the Vorlon bombers with 7, 8 or 10 parties taking part

2) if Earth is present at the battle: Drakh will be 2 and Vorlons 3 on the battle board
=> Drakh station is only in reach of the Vorlon bombers with 7, 8 or 10 parties taking part

Conclusion:
We can ensure that the following parties will take part in the battle:
Drakh
Vorlons
Gaim
Llort
Pak'ma'ra
Spoo
adding up to 6 parties, which is one less than needed.

Inviting the Shaodws makes 7, if Earth comes as well 8 parties are there... both numbers fine. Thus we should ensure that the Shadows take part in the battle.

Gaim/Llort will be there with own ships.
Pak'ma'ra and Spoo need each a ship transfered from Drakh, best would be a simple unarmed ship/scout: transfer-orders in 2462.

(corrected after input from Alex to:) Drakh needs to give one armed ship in orbit of his HW orders to attack everybody: thus ensuring that we show up in the battle.


[Updated on: Wed, 04 April 2007 22:08]

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Re: Battle Positions: Drakh HW & Vorlon attack Wed, 04 April 2007 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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All Drakh needs to do is set the default BO to attack everyone (taking care that other unintended battles don't occur because of it) OR
The safer route is to set a special BO for a warship to attack everyone.

It doesn't then matter what relationships are & all races will be involved even if they only have an unarmed ship. That would work even if the Vorlons tried something tricky like setting everyone to friend (which BTW would otherwise work for any race not set as a Vorlon enemy).

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Vorlon & Hyak Fleet Movement Fri, 06 April 2007 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ahem, am I the only one getting a creepy feeling when seeing:
  • the Vorlon fleet with 12 LFs, the BBs and CCs heading into the western IA-territory
  • no less than 31 Hyak CCs heading for the eastern IA-territory
I have my doubts wether 31 Hyak CCs are supposed to be needed vs... the Narns? And no news about the NAP.

How would it look like if the Vorlons + allies would start a full campaign vs the Interstellar Alliance? Similar to what we can see with our scanners... now?

Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean that they are not out to kill us *grin

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Hykas have Spoo set as "friends" Sat, 07 April 2007 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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My scouts tell me that the Hyaks helpfully refuel their ships... "probably just to give us a false feeling of security", says my Fleet Admiral Aionarap.

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Re: Vorlon & Hyak Fleet Movement Sat, 07 April 2007 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Well, the border as drawn by the Vorlons is totally unfair!

Where is the SE corner share for Pak/SPOO? Problem is that the Ipsha have grabbed most of the planets they fancy & the Hyak have been blanketing the area with 2K of pop per planet! I'd say that the Hyak probably have 60-70 planets now.

In a normal game I guess we'd be invading them left, right & centre but the Vorlon alliance thinks we're too scared to do anything.

OTOH I think the Hyak CCs probably are aimed at the Narn but what then?

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Chaff design Sun, 15 April 2007 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Chaff Design

I am usually going for a QJ-xray-FF design. Over time with raising tech levels and minituarization it gets even cheaper than the scout design. It has also quite a lot more fuel than the scout-chaff-design.

But I am not entirely sure about it in this scenario.

With much more development and very high tech fields, I've read that the FF-design might be not attractive enough for missiles. I doubt that we'll reach those levels, though. Perhaps even not the levels where the FF-design will get even as low in costs as the scout-design.

Any thoughts on that?

Scout-chaff or FF-chaff?

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Re: Chaff design Sun, 15 April 2007 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Altruist wrote on Sun, 15 April 2007 18:23

Chaff Design

I am usually going for a QJ-xray-FF design. Over time with raising tech levels and minituarization it gets even cheaper than the scout design. It has also quite a lot more fuel than the scout-chaff-design.

But I am not entirely sure about it in this scenario.

With much more development and very high tech fields, I've read that the FF-design might be not attractive enough for missiles. I doubt that we'll reach those levels, though. Perhaps even not the levels where the FF-design will get even as low in costs as the scout-design.

Any thoughts on that?

Scout-chaff or FF-chaff?

frigate chaff does not work well if the missiles are less powerful than Dooms so scout chaff is essential at this stage. Once Dooms are in wide use frigate chaff is best.

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2465: Drakh HW 2nd round Tue, 17 April 2007 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Commander

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Drakh HW
Everybody ready to send in the next scouts or whatever ships to repeat the battleboard trick?

My scout is incoming... but then I have only one other left before somebody else must pass me on a ship in that area.


[Updated on: Tue, 17 April 2007 18:07]

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Re: 2465: Drakh HW 2nd round Tue, 17 April 2007 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Altruist wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 00:07

Drakh HW
Everybody ready to send in the next scouts or whatever ships to repeat the battleboard trick?

My scout is incoming... but then I have only one other left before somebody else must pass me on a ship in that area.

I have no new ship ...
Doubt it will work again now that they know what we are doing ...

mch

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Re: 2465: Drakh HW 2nd round Tue, 17 April 2007 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Micha wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 18:16

Altruist wrote on Wed, 18 April 2007 00:07

Drakh HW
Everybody ready to send in the next scouts or whatever ships to repeat the battleboard trick?

My scout is incoming... but then I have only one other left before somebody else must pass me on a ship in that area.

I have no new ship ...
Doubt it will work again now that they know what we are doing ...

mch


Ditto.. I can have one there in '67. I also have no slot to take a transfered ship.

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Transfering Red Pirates to the Spoo to get local pen-scans Mon, 30 April 2007 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Feel free to pass Red Pirates to the Spoo if you want a penetrating scanner somehwere.

But keep it simple. It won't be fun for me if I have to order around 50 Red Pirates in a complicated pattern in some years.


[Updated on: Mon, 30 April 2007 19:48]

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Red Pirates Wed, 02 May 2007 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Commander

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It would be good if Llort and Pak could free 2 slots for Red Pirates. I know, easier said than done but we will need them rather fast to pass to and fro for further battlegrid manipulations.

@Drakh, you have built the wrong Red Pirate. It needs to be exactly the same, even the icon, otherwise it will use up another slot when transfered. You could just copy the design you already got transfered to make sure.

Inbetween Gaim, Llort, Drakh and Spoo already more than 100 are in use of the following design which should be copied by everybody:

http://stars.arglos.net/img/red-pirate.png

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Narn Warships Sat, 19 May 2007 02:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Faced with Hyak's jugger-ultras accompied by phased-sapper-BBs I realize that I haven't got enough CCs (or chaff) for an attack on Alcoa.

So I am thinking about
* waiting an additional year to reinforce Spoo Centre Fleet up to 70 CC Meadowmaker and 128 chaff
* transfering my CC Meadomakers to the Narn to get my beloved battle speed of 1.75

What do you think?

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Re: Narn Warships Sat, 19 May 2007 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Altruist wrote on Sat, 19 May 2007 02:55

Faced with Hyak's jugger-ultras accompied by phased-sapper-BBs I realize that I haven't got enough CCs (or chaff) for an attack on Alcoa.

So I am thinking about
* waiting an additional year to reinforce Spoo Centre Fleet up to 70 CC Meadowmaker and 128 chaff
* transfering my CC Meadomakers to the Narn to get my beloved battle speed of 1.75

What do you think?


The big question is would BOTH Earth & Ipsha leave Alcoa?
If yes then big problem, if no then you can with with ease!
Assuming the latter, why not:
1. Send in a Llort & Pak Red Pirate
2. Attack this year with the Meadowmakers & Red Pirates ONLY (if the bombers/SFXs are there they die). Transfer All armed ships (Meadowmakers/Red Pirates) to Narn in preparation for 2nd turn.
3. Gather & transfer the additional Meadowmakers & Red Pirates you mentioned.
RESULT for this year:
96 Red Pirates lost but all Meadowmakers survive & become Narn for next year. This does not matter what kind of base (all Jugg, Jugg/Sappers, Jugg/HB/Sappers, all HB/Sapper) & does not matter if Hyaks build 2 extra BBs (all Sapper or Beam).
4. Change BO for both Narn fleets to Kill Starbase.
5. Move 2nd Narn fleet to Alcoa
6. Move bombers/SFXs to Alcoa
7. Any IA ships surviving at Alcoa leave
RESULT for next year:
32 Red Pirates & about 10 Meadowmakers lost. All Jug Hyak base destroyed, bombing effective.

Note: Have not checked scenario with no attack ty (i.e. if you consider that BOTH Earth & Ipsha would leave) with or without transfering of ships to Narn (should allow for more BBs being built).

Emailing Battle Sim with all possibilities defined including some pre-transfered ships so you can check other things yourself if you like. Race numbers available in this Sim scenario:
2=Earth,5=Drakh,6=Hyak,7=Llort, Gaim or Pak,8=SPOO,12=Ipsha,13=Narn

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Re: Narn Warships Sat, 19 May 2007 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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AlexTheGreat wrote on Sat, 19 May 2007 21:57

Race numbers available in this Sim scenario:
2=Earth,5=Drakh,6=Hyak,7=Llort, Gaim or Pak,8=SPOO,12=Ipsha,13=Narn


Correction: Race numbers as defined but 5=Drakh,Gaim or Llort & 7=Pak

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Re: Narn Warships Sun, 20 May 2007 04:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Initially sending this to the IA only for your consideration. Also posting this in the forum.
Questions:
1. What happens to the VA allies if Abel is orbited?
2. Do Shadows win if Abel is defeated in a joint IA/SA mission?

Grand Strategy

It seems to me that recently:
1. The Vorlons have been researching rather than building ships
2. The rest of the VA have been building ships & using them to attack the IA.

If that is so there may be an opportunity to spring a surprise attack against the Vorlon HW. In order to succeed the following is necessary:
1. Some 98% cloaked (Shadow rogue - need only Super Stealth) scouts to check Squidcakes & Abel.
2. The Gate at Squidcakes needs to be operational
3. 4 gates of our own:
(i) IA west (for Gaim/Llort/Drakh)
(ii) IA east (for SPOO/Pak)
(iii) SA west (for Mars/Dilgar)
(iv) SA centre/east (for Shadows/Centauri)
4. Large IA/VA fleets gathered at the gates above to:
(i) To protect against VA gated ships
(ii) Launch the assault against Abel vis Squidcakes
5. Enough minesweepers (fleets of 5 DDs?) to crash sweepers through minefields at full speed.
6. Two small fleets (starting close to the base) to kill the Squidcakes gate & block VA reinforcement fleets.
7. A warship at each IA/SA gate to destroy it (needed?)
8. Divide responsibilities eg. who builds what.

Of course what we need also comes down to the size of the VA home guards at Squidcakes/Abel. There will be damage (not sure if losses are suffered if mass is unlimited) but it is probably still doable - Damage is estimated at:
((gate to gate distance - 300ly) * .0844)%. eg. 800ly = 42%, 1000ly = 58%.
Maybe the ships that will suffered the most damage should be those that will be secondary to fleet to fleet combat - eg. bombers,chaff,overcloakers.

On second thought, maybe we don't need bombers since the mission is simply to orbit Abel. Also need to determine whether the Squidcakes gate should be destroyed in the first or second year - we might need reinforcements of chaff, SFXs, warships & overcloakers (to disguise fleet strengths) in year 2 and the VA are unlikely to be ready to gate ships in the first year.
REMEMBER that the most attractive targets are usually SFXs first, bombers second.

Opinions & thoughts?

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Alcoa & Strat Mon, 21 May 2007 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Alcoa:
Mmh, what I don't understand in your suggestions about how to attack Alcoa...

With only Spoo and Narn taking part in the battle, there doesn't seem to be a way the VA can enforce a battlegrid manipulation to shoot at Spoo bombers, so why all the fuss about attacking without bombers first, sending in other ships and so on?


AlexTheGreat wrote on Sun, 20 May 2007 10:26

It seems to me that recently:
1. The Vorlons have been researching rather than building ships
2. The rest of the VA have been building ships & using them to attack the IA.


Yes to the first: they were obviously researching weap 16.
Yes/No to the 2nd assumption: Earth have been building ships a lot, Hyaks have been building bombers only and I doubt that the Ipsha have been building many warships. Except Earth they were all waiting for weap 16. Hyaks still haven't got en10 but latest when they get this, they'll be producing ships en mass, I think.

Quote:

If that is so there may be an opportunity to spring a surprise attack against the Vorlon HW.


I think there was a chance. Now we will be running right into weap16-fleets just being in the process of getting built.

But having said this, a combined surprise attack is still a good option... after we have all got en10 and con13.

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