Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I
Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
c64k

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 42
Registered: March 2006
Location: .us
Since it looks like we'll be getting a new host (thanks for offering, Maim)... can we change the game parameters a bit?

1: Small universe for 6 players with only normal density? Maybe packed density or medium universe on normal density would work a bit better.

2: I dunno about this chaff thing. Since I generally play against computers, I have no experience in dealing with or using chaff, and I would imagine that other beginners might have the same problem. On the other hand, this might be a good place to learn. What do people think about chaff? Should we ban it? Or at least discourage it?

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 02:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
c64k wrote on Thu, 23 March 2006 18:21

2: I dunno about this chaff thing. Since I generally play against computers, I have no experience in dealing with or using chaff, and I would imagine that other beginners might have the same problem. On the other hand, this might be a good place to learn. What do people think about chaff? Should we ban it? Or at least discourage it?

Definitely allow chaff:
- it's something people will have to learn for other games anyway, so disallowing chaff would be doing them a disfavour by teaching bad habits,
- it makes the game more interesting by providing a Rock-Paper-Scissors loop,
- it's _very_ hard to define rules that determine exactly what is and isn't chaff, as there are other uses for small ships (scouts, minesweepers etc). I've seen much discussion about this in games that don't want chaff.

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

Well.. Like Madman said, disallowing Chaff would do you a dis-service... I'm sure you'll either catch onto it in this game or some future game depending on what happens. (I didn't even see it in the first game or two that I played.. I think.. Yeah.. First 2 or 3 there wasn't any chaff used against me. And it was still allowed. So there ya go.)

So... I guess I'll be needing Email addresses and that ping back... Oh! And yeah... Recomfirmation on game settings.

Do me a favor and just private message me or something... I'll check back here again to see what's going on.


[Updated on: Thu, 23 March 2006 02:52]




Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 05:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
I didn't offer to host the game because I'm already hosting one, but if you want someone neutral to check the races and hold the passwords, please let me know.

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Woody is currently offline Woody

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 8
Registered: March 2006
Location: Belgium
I feel comfortable at the game settings. No probs with those.
And I certainly recommend on letting chaff being used.
It's not a cheat, it's a tactic everyone has to learn.
There is no better place, than a beginners game to learn. Right? Smile

Another thing I choose for a beginners game, is my RL also absorbs some decent amount of time. And when going to play an intermediate game, I need to put a lot more effort in doing MM (Micro-Management) stuff and such.
Here I guess I can go easy and be of help to some newcomers in this marvelous easy-looking but complicated game. Razz At least it all depends on how far you want to go into details of MM.
I noticed there was a good tutorial ("Stars - Must Know" forum part)on how to achieve a good resources-curve (or trying to hit 25k@ 2450) ... sure a must read.
Good economics is half the victory.

At least put some effort if possible in reading "The Academy" on this forum. Various usefull info for any player.

Gunter

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yoey is currently offline yoey

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 17
Registered: February 2006
Chaff is something i've read a lot about. This will be a good opportunity for me to try some of those skills out.

Also the game is set up fine for me.

Players
Beginners only - if you can get 25k by 2450, then sign up for Hex2 for intermediates

I look forward to seeing you guys in game Asleep at cptr

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
miklem is currently offline miklem

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 35
Registered: April 2004
Location: Russia
I send my race to Zoiker and still want to play in this game - maybe max number of players can be >6?

And we definitly should make victory conditions more clear.

As for galaxy size - I think, that size should be choosen _before_ race generations. I prefer medium size for 6-8 players, but will play in small (and even in tiny;)).

WBR, MikleM




WBR, MikleM

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

Well if Zoiker ever shows up again I'll send my race in to him too... But right now I'm getting ready to host.. Just need names, emails and race names. Also the race file.. And if Madman would like to hold the race passwords that would be very useful.

In which case you'd send him the passwords, and probably a copy of the race files.

Medium universe does sound nice given the potential for crampt quarters.


[Updated on: Thu, 23 March 2006 17:44]




Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
OK, whenever things are ready (I know universe size has to be determined first), feel free to PM me with race files (and passwords), or alternatively, email me at: roy_dunedin@hotmail.com (note: this is not a permanent email, just an account I activate every so often to be able to post an email address on a website). Make sure you include your name, email and SAH name so there's no confusion which race goes with which person.

I'll try and check daily.

Remember to also let me know (via PM) if you change your password during the game.

I'm also happy to try and offer some constructive comments about the races if this would be considered useful (I'd be a high intermediate or possibly even advanced level player).


[Updated on: Thu, 23 March 2006 19:10]

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
c64k

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 42
Registered: March 2006
Location: .us
miklem wrote on Thu, 23 March 2006 15:53

As for galaxy size - I think, that size should be choosen _before_ race generations.

Ditto. It'd be nice to know for sure what the playing field would be.

Quote:

I prefer medium size for 6-8 players

Ditto. Small seems a bit cramped for this many people.

Quote:

but will play in small

Ditto again. So I'm in no matter what. Just please let me know how many planets this universe will have (small vs. med, normal vs. packed) so I have an idea how much breathing room my race should have. Smile


[Updated on: Thu, 23 March 2006 18:11]

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 23 March 2006 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
miklem wrote on Fri, 24 March 2006 08:53

I send my race to Zoiker and still want to play in this game - maybe max number of players can be >6?

And we definitly should make victory conditions more clear.

As for galaxy size - I think, that size should be choosen _before_ race generations. I prefer medium size for 6-8 players, but will play in small (and even in tiny;)).

I'm inclined to think between 25-40 planets per player is good - less than 25, and combat might be a little early for a beginning game, more than 40 and empires get too big.

For 6 players, that's from 150-240 planets, which fits small dense, small packed or medium sparse.

With 7-10 players, medium normal is a good choice.

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Fri, 24 March 2006 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona


Map Size and Density Change?[ 8 votes ]
1. Small/Normal 0 / 0%
2. Small/Dense 0 / 0%
3. Small/Packed 0 / 0%
4. Medium/Sparse 0 / 0%
5. Medium/Normal 6 / 75%
6. Medium/Dense 1 / 13%
7. Medium/Packed 1 / 13%

I need a concensus here on map size/density... Also someone made a reasonable complaint about the tech setting, I tend to agree slow tech for noobs seems a bit... Harsh. Also some concerns on a guarenteed minimum concentration for the HW... If anyone cares to second these opinions I'd be pleased to alter the conditions.

Current players who've signed up (with me as host):
1) Yoey (no race file yet)
2) Cerindil (no race name, no race file.)
3) CaptainMaim (Clearly I've sent my race to myself Very Happy , but I'm not quite ready yet either.)
4) c64k (No Email, No Race file, No race name)
5) <None>
6) <None>
7) <Do we want 7?>
Cool <8 I'd say is the limit As per Madman's expirience>

I've assumed that starting distance is... Unchanged as 1) no one complained and 2) It seems to always be "distant".


(Oh here's a dumb/fun idea which I could do pretty quickly, what if the map were alphabetized into a grid. So you'd have "A" sector where all planets start with A, and B sector and C and so on. I think that'd be cool! Anyway, it's just a crazy fun idea I had. Could even pregen the map thanks to Map2XY while we wait. [But I'd need to know exactly how big and dense the map is going to be.])


[Updated on: Sat, 25 March 2006 00:02]




Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Fri, 24 March 2006 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
Captain Maim wrote on Sat, 25 March 2006 15:17

I need a concensus here on map size/density... Also someone made a reasonable complaint about the tech setting, I tend to agree slow tech for noobs seems a bit...

Size/density depends a little on number of players - I'd choose differently for 7 or 8 players than I would for 5 or 6. It's the approx number of planets per player that matters (and density of course).

As for slow tech - I'd agree that beginner games should be as vanilla as possible (I could make a case for slow tech making Stars! a better game, but it's best to learn with normal settings).

Quote:

Cool <8 I'd say is the limit As per Madman's expirience>

I think you might be referring to someone else's experience here Smile - I think I suggested that medium normal was good for giving 7-10 players a bit of room.

Quote:

It seems to always be "distant".

Distant ... _always_ distant. The other options should not even exist (the only use for them is in testbeds where you _want_ races you are testing in battle to start next to each other).

Quote:

(Oh here's a dumb/fun idea which I could do pretty quickly, what if the map were alphabetized into a grid. So you'd have "A" sector where all planets start with A, and B sector and C and so on. I think that'd be cool! Anyway, it's just a crazy fun idea I had. Could even pregen the map thanks to Map2XY while we wait. [But I'd need to know exactly how big and dense the map is going to be.])

Unless Map2XY has changed since I looked at it, the problem with it is that you've got to very careful with first moves, because the game file is confused about where the ships are with the stars moved. Don't make life more complicated than you have to unless there is a particular shape/size you want for game reasons.

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Fri, 24 March 2006 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
c64k

 
Petty Officer 3rd Class

Messages: 42
Registered: March 2006
Location: .us
Captain Maim wrote on Fri, 24 March 2006 22:17

Current players who've signed up

I'm in.

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

Madman wrote on Fri, 24 March 2006 22:32

Captain Maim wrote on Sat, 25 March 2006 15:17

I need a concensus here on map size/density... Also someone made a reasonable complaint about the tech setting, I tend to agree slow tech for noobs seems a bit...

Size/density depends a little on number of players - I'd choose differently for 7 or 8 players than I would for 5 or 6. It's the approx number of planets per player that matters (and density of course).


Fair enough.

Quote:


As for slow tech - I'd agree that beginner games should be as vanilla as possible (I could make a case for slow tech making Stars! a better game, but it's best to learn with normal settings).


Great! Slow tech off, normal tech on! Hope no one disagrees.

Quote:


Quote:

Cool <8 I'd say is the limit As per Madman's expirience>

I think you might be referring to someone else's experience here Smile - I think I suggested that medium normal was good for giving 7-10 players a bit of room.

Quote:

It seems to always be "distant".

Distant ... _always_ distant. The other options should not even exist (the only use for them is in testbeds where you _want_ races you are testing in battle to start next to each other).


Makes me want to propose a game based on the premise of using one of the other distance settings. Laughing
Quote:


Quote:

(Oh here's a dumb/fun idea which I could do pretty quickly, what if the map were alphabetized into a grid. So you'd have "A" sector where all planets start with A, and B sector and C and so on. I think that'd be cool! Anyway, it's just a crazy fun idea I had. Could even pregen the map thanks to Map2XY while we wait. [But I'd need to know exactly how big and dense the map is going to be.])

Unless Map2XY has changed since I looked at it, the problem with it is that you've got to very careful with first moves, because the game file is confused about where the ships are with the stars moved. Don't make life more complicated than you have to unless there is a particular shape/size you want for game reasons.


Na... I know what I'm doing, I just 1) gen a map of the medium/normal variety, 2) use... Hmmm... What's it called? Xboarders to divide up the map for me, then 3) go squentially down the sectors with a text editor, the .map file and a list of names and copy paste my way through it.

Doing it once I don't mind, redoing it 3 times in a row? That might be pushing it a little.

But otherwise, yeah, I'm fully aware of remapping issues... No sweat though, I'll just use a seed number to lock to map down into a predefined pattern. Very Happy Piece-a-cake!



Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yoey is currently offline yoey

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 17
Registered: February 2006
seems that a few people prefer medium maps for 6+ players. normal density seems to give a fair amount of planets. If we are under 6 players then a small/dense or small normal is acceptable. just my my 2 cents

my vote would also be for normal tech advance. No other reason than for my own lack of experience playing with that setting. It is a beginner game, after all Dunce

If that is the consensus, i will have my race to Madman on Sunday

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Captain Maim wrote on Sat, 25 March 2006 17:17

Makes me want to propose a game based on the premise of using one of the other distance settings. Laughing


Wait until Sanity is finished so I can play! Very Happy One of my first duels against Chagarra was Close start positions. Fortunately, neither of us was PP, but it was certainly interesting. Laughing

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

If anyone who's play testing their race would like, I can give them
the def file I'm using to gen the map with if they'd like.



Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 08:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Captain Maim wrote on Sat, 25 March 2006 11:01

If anyone who's play testing their race would like, I can give them
the def file I'm using to gen the map with if they'd like.


First, this won't work since the way the universe is genned also depends on the computer the game is genned on. Same seed gives different results on different pc's.

Second, if it would work you would be giving everyone the chance to pre-scout the entire universe ... I know you're only trying to help but bad idea. Wink

mch

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 08:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
I'm going to use this post as a placeholder to update which races I have received so far - I'm regarding them all as preliminary until all the game settings are resolved.

I'm quite happy for people to send a race, then later send a race to replace it (possibly in response to feedback), as long as you are clear on which one is the 'current' one. Stars! can be such a huge investment of time that it's worth taking time to get a good race.

Races received:
(1) Cerindil
(2) Captain Maim
(3) miklem
(4) yoey
(5) Woody
(6) c64

Some of the people that have sent races are revising their races and will re-send them.

NOTE: It's offical - you only need to send races to me, not Captain Maim (although you still reserve a game slot through him).


[Updated on: Fri, 31 March 2006 09:30]

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
yoey wrote on Sat, 25 March 2006 18:52

seems that a few people prefer medium maps for 6+ players. normal density seems to give a fair amount of planets. If we are under 6 players then a small/dense or small normal is acceptable. just my my 2 cents

Medium normal with 6 players is an average of 48 planets/player. That's good in some ways - fairly forgiving for beginners to get started without meeting opponents immediately, but there is the risk of some of the empires being too big to manage comfortably. I always seem to bog down badly when I get more than about 80 planets. Of course, YMMV (your mileage may vary) - I'm a compulsive micromanger Sad


[Updated on: Sat, 25 March 2006 22:19]

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sat, 25 March 2006 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

Thanks Micha! And, the prescouting aspect did occure to me which is why I only asked.. And second.. I didn't know that the game seed number genned based on the particular computer it was genned on. Shocked That's one complex randomization algorythum!

Thanks for the update Madman... I'll have to send in my race too. And... I'll use a non seeded map for play testing. (I'm almost done alphabetizing the 9 sectors I put up. Shame.. The letter "E" didn't have enough names in it, so I filled in the rest of the names with Z's in stead. I suspect F will be a similar problem. Oh well. If I ever do this again, I'll just write a little batch program to do it for me. (That's what I usually do for Stars! problems like that.)



Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Sun, 26 March 2006 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
To avoid confusion, I suggest that players just send passworded races files to me (with password). I'll then forward all of them (without password) to Captain Maim when I have them all.

Are you OK with this, Captain Maim?

[update - Captain Maim is fine with that]


[Updated on: Tue, 28 March 2006 06:53]

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Tue, 28 March 2006 02:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Woody is currently offline Woody

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 8
Registered: March 2006
Location: Belgium
I mailed my passworded racefile to Madman this morning.
So expect me to join as well. Smile

Cya
Gunter

Report message to a moderator

Re: New Game -- Beginners -- Hex I Thu, 30 March 2006 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Madman is currently offline Madman

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand
Apologies to all - I haven't been checking races as I have a bit of a chest infection and am struggling to find the energy to do anything right now. I hope to get back to it tomorrow.

Only 5 players so far have submitted race files - 1 to 3 more would be good for a medium normal universe.

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: New Game: Nowhere to Run
Next Topic: New intermediate/beginner game: GAME FULL
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Dec 09 13:45:31 EST 2019