Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » another strange MT story
 another strange MT story |
Thu, 20 February 2003 03:27  |
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 Robert |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
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ok.... we mostly believe that the MT gives the same to all
players, dont we???
listen to this:
we have a game with low tech, not much advanced (first MT).
also i should mention we have public player scores...
also i am PP, and see mostly everything in the universe,
here we go:
player1 and player2 got the MT (could watch them), and their
score showed a significant increase in tech (2 rounds actually,
the first one to push all the cheap fields, the second one from
the MT i guess).
next player 3 got the MT, no increase in tech, but suddenly
he is the only player with a captial ship. when i asked him
he told me the MT gave a lifeboat.
as i was quite sure the MT gives the same to everybody, i
assumed that he would give ships if empty slots are available,
and tech if all slots are filled.
wrong!
i filled all slots, because i wanted to have tech, when i met
the MT, i got a message that he tried to give me a ship, but
he couldnt as i had no open slots...
so i am quite sure now about 2 things:
1.) one MT can give different things to different players
2.) if you dont have empty slots, you will get NOTHING (and
still play the mins - outch)
has anybody met something like this before???
some obvious things:
- yes, the first 2 players met the MT (and with 99% got tech levels)
- no, they did not get a ship and scrapped it again.
- yes, it is the same MT (it is the only one and the first MT
in the game)
can someone explain???
robert
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| Re: another strange MT story |
Thu, 20 February 2003 13:50  |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| Robert wrote on Thu, 20 February 2003 02:27 |
ok.... we mostly believe that the MT gives the same to all
players, dont we???
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According to the oracles there are four types of MT:
| Quote: |
MT 1. Gives out parts. Same part to everyone, if you have that part already you get another.
MT 2. Gives out tech. Dependent on current player tech, and more tech for > 5k minerals - up to 10k minerals
MT 3. Gives out ships. Random number, random type, for each player, but always ships.
MT 4. Random
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Additional tech is give for each 1200 minerals above 5000. Up to a maximum of 10 total levels at 9800 minerals.
| Quote: |
i filled all slots, because i wanted to have tech, when i met the MT, i got a message that he tried to give me a ship, but
he couldnt as i had no open slots...
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Big bada boom! Looks like random MT wanted to give you ships but you had no slots. No slots, no ships. SHOOT. 
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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 Re: another strange MT story |
Mon, 24 February 2003 05:45 |
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| Sinla |
 | Warrant Officer |
Messages: 132
Registered: February 2003
Location: the Netherlands | |
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I got an even worse-case-scenario:
I met an MT with 9800 mins, he said I had no open slots and didn't give me anything, AND I'M ONLY USING 12 SLOTS NOW! 
After checking, I saw a few messages saying:
"Your starbase at Distopia built 1 new Nubila(s) but due to a lack of 27B/6 Fleet ID Requisition forms they have been merged with Coller+ #128 which fortunately happend to be nearby."
I never had this (never had 205k and 168 planets at 2473  ) message before, presumably refers to the 512 maxships, but when I look at the fleet summary report, I've only got 459 fleets...
So what I think happened:
1) all my bases are building ships.
2) they're exceeding the maxships limits.
3) the MT tries to give me a ship, which isn't possible, due to the fact I already have more then 512 of them.
4) fleets above 512 are merged if possible.
5) if still above 512, fleets get removed.
I didn't look to closely, but I hope the engine didn't reverse step 4 and 5 ...
hmm, getting a bit O/T here, but stil: comments anyone?
F
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| Re: another strange MT story |
Mon, 24 February 2003 11:20 |
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| yucaf |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India | |
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| Sinla wrote on Mon, 24 February 2003 05:45 |
So what I think happened:
1) all my bases are building ships.
2) they're exceeding the maxships limits.
3) the MT tries to give me a ship, which isn't possible, due to the fact I already have more then 512 of them.
4) fleets above 512 are merged if possible.
5) if still above 512, fleets get removed.
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The exact events in the exceeding the 512 fleet limit has not been much documented. Looking at the order of events, production happens first, MT meeting later, and waypoint 1 fleet merging even later. So what happened to you would mean that during the turn generation you can have an "internal and temporary" excess of 512 fleets, but maybe when the wp1 merging sequence is executed, a check ensures that the total number is not above 512, cleaning it if necessary using the 2 methods you mention in your points 4 an 5.
A way to check that would be to verify if a ship built "in excess" would engage a battle, then the check arrives and it would be eliminated. Battle occurs after production and before merging at WP1. In clear:
-Have 512 fleets.
-Build one more (fleet #513) at a starbase where you have an ennemy fleet who will engage it but not destroy it.
-Check what happened to the fleet #513: did it merge with another fleet present, was it destroyed?
A variant would be to have it destroyed to see if there was no need to take care of this excess fleet (no message).
In fact I'm going to try that right now.
YucaF
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| Re: another strange MT story |
Mon, 24 February 2003 12:48 |
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| yucaf |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India | |
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Well, I just ran a testbed and here are the results:
2 races, A and B. Both have 512 fleets
On year 2500 I set orders for each race to:
-build one ship
-Keep a fleet on the planets where the new ships are built.
-Send one ship (=1 fleet) to rendez-vous in space and fight.
On year 2501 I receive the following messages:
-A battle happened and ship of race B lost.
-For race A, a ship was built but there was no room and it was merged with the first fleet in orbit (in #) - at the end 512 fleets when I check with F2.
-For race B, a ship was built and it was merged as well.
-The battle occured and a fleet was lost.
-Checking with F2, I have 511 fleets left.
So this would not be compatible with Sinla's explanation that at some point there were in memory more than 512 fleets. It seems that as soon as they are produced, the program tries to find a free fleet #, and if there is none, it check if it can merge it with some fleet in orbit. There is no time for a MT to go in and interfere.
Therefore I think the correct explanation is:
1) You build your fleets
2) you exceed the limit, some ships are merged, we are down to 512
3) The MT attemps to give, cannot
4) Some event reduced further the number of fleets.
Maybe you had some merge order at WP1 or you lost some ships in battle, resulting in a less than 512 fleets at the end? If not, we should start to look for another explanation. Also, did the ships given to the MT were absorbed? That would be one fleet less, even if nothing was given in exchange. (which would be kind of a bug, since a fleet slot if automatically open by absorbing a fleet into the MT )
YucaF
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| Re: another strange MT story |
Mon, 24 February 2003 13:22 |
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| Micha | 
 | |
Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Quote: |
Maybe you had some merge order at WP1 or you lost some ships in battle, resulting in a less than 512 fleets at the end? If not, we should start to look for another explanation. Also, did the ships given to the MT were absorbed? That would be one fleet less, even if nothing was given in exchange. (which would be kind of a bug, since a fleet slot if automatically open by absorbing a fleet into the MT )
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I have played in large games before, constantly keeping an eye on the 512 fleet limit, the turns I wasn't paying enough attention and lost some ships because I already had 512 I always had less than 512 fleets when opening the new turn.
YucaF's suggestion is indeed what happened, fleets lost in battle/minefield, fleets merged, fleets transferred, ...
IOW any event that happens AFTER production. So NOT scrapping, that's the first thing that happens in a turn, so if you are scrapping 10 fleets they don't count towards the 512 fleets limit since they're gone in time ... (however haven't tested it).
regards,
mch
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Ummm, sure! 
I do FREESTYLE math.
).