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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage?
Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 15:07 Go to next message
PassyCet is currently offline PassyCet

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 10
Registered: January 2003

Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage?[ 51 votes ]
1. Advantage ! 35 / 69%
2. Disadvantage ! 5 / 10%
3. Neutral. (No Gain / No Loss) 11 / 22%

What's your opinion on Regenerating Shield? Cool

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
This like many many many _many_ other things comes down to personal taste, era in the game (... FF, BB, nub, ...), PRT, economy model ...

But I say "Advantage!!!" I love it Smile

regards,
mch

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Well consider that the only *real* point of losing out is when comparing to the Super Latanium and when under attack from Sappers.

Super Latanium is too costly to use anyway so we can ignore that one.

Sappers will tear apart your sheilds anyway and Sapper tends to be used with those missiles. I'd sooner take regen sheilds and hope they last long enough to avoid the double damage against missiles.


Exception to this....

AR - sure the energy tech you get will generally mean your sheilds are better than your armour - so it's a definate bonus... but your precious starbases are less well defended... bit of a bad thing.


I'd sooner take regen sheilds. Mainly because I like beamers and as such I need to keep the weight down and the speed up in order to close down missile/torp ships ASAP.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
[With the riske of being banned to the AR section again Wink ]

Quote:


Exception to this....

AR - sure the energy tech you get will generally mean your sheilds are better than your armour - so it's a definate bonus... but your precious starbases are less well defended... bit of a bad thing.



Well, you can look at this from another angle: your starbase will die _anyway_ it just means that with regen shields the base will suck up a little less missile fire, but that only means that just a little more of the AR chaff gets killed ... This is assuming the enemy will attack with his full force, if he is only attacking with suicide ships than you are making it a little easier for him ...
Next to that keep in mind that AR tend to reach nubs before other races (except the economic monsters maybe) so RS becomes even more attractive for them since they will be the first to benefit from the effect in the last era ...

"Thanks" to the kill starbase order an AR should trust on his ships and not on his starbases to win a battle, and most important like any other race a starbase is useless when you are on the offensive ...

regards,
mch

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
Me, I hate armoring my BBs.
Makes them too expensive, it seems.

...and I play as IT, more often than not. Of course, I also play factless... Razz

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Sotek wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 16:49

Me, I hate armoring my BBs.
Makes them too expensive, it seems.



I don't armor my beam BBs much either, not because it makes them more expensive but without armor they are "perfectly" gate-able (around 377kT with the green engine), the loss to the void is worth the mobility!

regards,
mch

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icon7.gif  Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sun, 02 February 2003 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

I don't care for armored battleships either. Against missiles, any armor dp you have in excess of your shields dp is only going to be 1/4 as effective, ie double damage to armor instead of half damage. And against beams, you'll wanna be light and agile anyway.

[Updated on: Sun, 02 February 2003 22:43]

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Mon, 03 February 2003 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PassyCet is currently offline PassyCet

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 10
Registered: January 2003
At this point in time there seems to be an overwhelming "approval" for Regenerating Shield.

One question, with RS arn't you guys be more vunerable to Missiles... especially in the earlier part of the game.

I personally prefer Regenerating Shield too. However, the Half Armour make me choose otherwise....unless I'm playing as WM.

Keep those opinions comming.....

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Mon, 03 February 2003 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
regiss

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002
Quote:

the Half Armour make me choose otherwise


50% armor is only applied to additional armor (hull dp is
unaffected). Therefore and becouse:

  • I don't put any armor anyway to keep weight and speed optimal.
  • Try to use biger stacks with shields equal to armor.
  • Usually take energy cheap to speed up terraforming.

RS really helps for me. And those 7-20 points I sometimes
spend on RS in RW is nothing compared to advantages it provides.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Wed, 05 February 2003 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Verker is currently offline Verker

 
Master Chief Petty Officer
VML mod guy

Messages: 99
Registered: January 2003
Location: Vienna, AUT
Well, I would have voted for advantage, but taking the VML-mod into account, I had to decide for neutral:

Ofc there's hardly any armor on my ships, but with starbase exclusive heavy armor and its dp cut in half, that will make a significant difference, esp so for AR races. OTOH, in VML there won't be fast moving or gateable cap missile ships, so loosing some of the dp's shouldn't hurt too much.

Overall a draw depending on the design/PRT/horde I want to play.



Verker ||¬]

verker@iname.donotspamhere.com remove the obvious for mailing me

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Tue, 11 February 2003 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Well, so far I have yet to play a game with a RS race. Call me a right-wing conservative, but I like my missile BBs to be loaded down with armor as well as shields, just in case the bad guy gets through my chaff and they have to take a hit or two. Those big hosses is slower than molasses in January anyways. I will take a bit of armor off if it means the difference between 3/4 and 1 on the battle board, although I sometimes wonder if that 1/4 move makes that big a difference.

But why are we discussing BBs anyway? I always was under the impression that RS gives the greatest benefit in the early and late game eras, unless you are a WM and have the hulls to fully exploit RS. I usually play SS, or that has been my predominant choice in the past, and I have never seen where taking RS gives a standard SS any real benefit, "standard" being more clearly defined as being either a factory using HG or HP designed to go to war in the mid to late stages of a game.

Now, if I were to play a -f SS, then I would most likely take RS because of the benefits derived from early attack when playing any -f race.

I do not believe, however, that RS is always advantageous. I believe it is advantageous depending on conditions and race design.

For what it's worth,
Rolling Eyes The Crusader



Nothing for now.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sat, 15 February 2003 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

I disagree. When it comes to cap missile fights RS is a god send. Consider that with RS you keep armour damage to 50% for a lot longer than vs non-RS. You also keep that double damage away for as long as possible, but as with all things stars.....

The double damage is in effect twice as effective since you have half the armour - this one I can't argue with in any way shape or form.

sappers - nightmare man! Sappers ruin a sheilded ships day, fire first and good range they make dthe double damage all the harder to take.... BUT.... RS or noRS - sapper will hurt your ships just as well.... with RS you may survive the first shot and have sheilds left for the missiles... if you don't... then the RS wouldn't have sheilds either so it's the same boat time.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Thu, 20 February 2003 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johng316 is currently offline johng316

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
In the early game, RS is an advantage. If you're playing in a slow-tech game where tech will remain low for a long time, RS is a good score.

In the middle game, RS is a disadvantage. Sapper and Armor tech tend to overrule the benefits gained from RS when you get up to around tech 16.

In the endgame, RS shifts back to advantage because of the high base armor of the Nubian hull.

John G



All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Sat, 22 February 2003 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
johng316 wrote on Thu, 20 February 2003 16:57

In the early game, RS is an advantage. If you're playing in a slow-tech game where tech will remain low for a long time, RS is a good score.

In the middle game, RS is a disadvantage. Sapper and Armor tech tend to overrule the benefits gained from RS when you get up to around tech 16.

In the endgame, RS shifts back to advantage because of the high base armor of the Nubian hull.

John G


Middle game: not putting any armor on my BBs anyway. Grin Keeps them gate-able (I prefer to build and gather my fleet FAST rather than have some tougher ships with armor but travelling 5-6 years through space! Worst case arriving at the front out-dated!) so RS is also an advantage here, since without RS the sappers would take down the shields even faster!

regards,
mch

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Tue, 25 February 2003 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johng316 is currently offline johng316

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 177
Registered: November 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
Micha wrote on Sat, 22 February 2003 19:30
Middle game: not putting any armor on my BBs anyway. :

Keeps them gate-able


Are you just building beamer BBs then? If you're building missile BBs, you're still not going to be able to gate them (unless you're IT), even without armor.

I don't know about you, but I find that armor per missile ratio is an important part of winning battles.

I suppose you could compensate by placing fewer than the maximum number of missiles on your BBs... it would be interesting to test.

Another factor in my thinking, I suppose, is that I will never play anything larger than Medium universes, and I strongly prefer Small. This limits the additional value of stargates once the mid-game hits and warp 10 engines arrive on the scene. Still useful, but not nearly as much as when you're playing in large or huge.

Good point about the stargates, though...

John G



All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Tue, 25 February 2003 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
Beamer BBs also oftimes serve better unarmored.
If you have better range, the weight advantage is important.
Likewise if you've *worse* range.

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Re: Regenerating Shield. Advantage or Disadvantage? Thu, 27 February 2003 19:26 Go to previous message
Micha

 

Messages: 2341
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
johng316 wrote on Wed, 26 February 2003 03:23

Micha wrote on Sat, 22 February 2003 19:30
Middle game: not putting any armor on my BBs anyway. :

Keeps them gate-able


Are you just building beamer BBs then? If you're building missile BBs, you're still not going to be able to gate them (unless you're IT), even without armor.


Grin Yup, close to only beamers, only missile for special purposes like shooting down bombers. Works surprisingly well, your enemies showing up with chaff and you not bringing any missiles, what a waste for them! Razz
Still waiting for the moment that somebody thinks: "He's not going to build any missiles at all" and than with all the excess iron I _do_ build missiles and waste my enemies fleet that is unjammed and without chaff. Twisted Evil
And I do have plenty of iron laying around! Shortage is bor Grin

Quote:

I don't know about you, but I find that armor per missile ratio is an important part of winning battles.


I'm bringing more BBs to the battle, since I can gather them through gates, meaning more firepower.

Quote:

I suppose you could compensate by placing fewer than the maximum number of missiles on your BBs... it would be interesting to test.


Can't make a gate-able missile BB, only works with CCs (which are useless missile ships once BBs show up) or omega nubs, and the latter have also very little fire power, more like a special design and not for a main line warship.

Quote:

Another factor in my thinking, I suppose, is that I will never play anything larger than Medium universes, and I strongly prefer Small. This limits the additional value of stargates once the mid-game hits and warp 10 engines arrive on the scene. Still useful, but not nearly as much as when you're playing in large or huge.


I also prefer the smaller games, medium is the largest I would play ... although I just finished a _huge_ Shocked but that was a teamgame and was fun for once, not to be repeated though Grin ...

regards,
mch

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