| The guts of cloaks in minefields. |
Fri, 29 May 2015 01:53  |
|
 platon79 |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 185
Registered: February 2004
Location: Norway | |
|
Let's say that hypotetically I'm an SD with an unresponsive SS neighbour who may perhaps one day become my enemy, although I hope not.
The helpfile states the following facts:
-When a ship is in a minefield, its cloak effectiveness is always an absolute value (90% cloak = 10% chance of detection)
-SD: Minefields act as normal scanners but do not detect fleets orbiting planets.
So if I have a 100 ly minefield around a planet, and a 100 ly scanner, and a 75% cloaked fleet somewhere, can I then assume the following?:
-The 100ly scanner is useless, as the SD fleet will always be in the minefield.
-It does not matter if the fleet is 2ly from my planet or 98ly from my planet, the detection probability will be 25% anyway.
-If I detect the fleet at say 50ly from my planet, and it moves to 30ly, it will have a 75% chance of "dissappearing" from my scanners? Or will it stay detected?
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: The guts of cloaks in minefields. |
Fri, 29 May 2015 10:25  |
|
| skoormit |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama | |
|
What follows is my understanding of the game's implementation, based on observations in a couple SD-SS matchups I've been a part of. I have *not* tested any of this.
platon79 wrote on Fri, 29 May 2015 00:53
So if I have a 100 ly minefield around a planet, and a 100 ly scanner, and a 75% cloaked fleet somewhere, can I then assume the following?:
-The 100ly scanner is useless, as the SD fleet will always be in the minefield.
(Assuming you mean the SS fleet.)
The scanner is not useless. It still has its own chance of seeing the fleet. In this case, it will spot the fleet when it is <= 25ly from the planet.
Quote:
-It does not matter if the fleet is 2ly from my planet or 98ly from my planet, the detection probability will be 25% anyway.
Yes, for the purposes of the minefield detecting the fleet. If the scanner does not see it, the minefield has a chance of detecting it, and that chance does not depend on the specific location of the fleet in the minefield.
Quote:
-If I detect the fleet at say 50ly from my planet, and it moves to 30ly, it will have a 75% chance of "dissappearing" from my scanners? Or will it stay detected?
The fleet can disappear. Each turn the minefield checks again to see if it detects the fleet. I don't think the fleet even has to move. It can disappear the next year regardless of movement.
What we need's a few good taters.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The guts of cloaks in minefields. |
Fri, 29 May 2015 23:20 |
|
|
|
neilhoward wrote on Sat, 30 May 2015 02:43Stars! Player's Guide, v2.6b, Step 2: Primary Traits, Space DemolitionMine fields act as non-penetrating scanners. Cloaks work as an absolute percentage against mine scans.
Mine field radius functions as scanner range so a cloaked fleet inside a field will be detected when its percentage of distance from edge to center exceeds its percentage cloak. I think "chance" of detection is either 1 or 0. Scanning occurs after everything else, e.g. decay, laying, & sweeping. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
I'm not sure that's correct.
Mine fields act like a scanner at every point.
Quote:Mine field radius functions as scanner range Correct.. I understand that.
Quote: percentage of distance from edge to center exceeds its percentage cloak
This is what I don't understand.
If I'm a 78% cloaked SS, you mean if I'm at the 22% radial circle of the minefield (let's say 21%), I'll be at risk (0,1 roll dice) of being detected?
From what I know, whether you are at
> 99% range from centre of minefield
or
> 1% from centre of minefield
you stand an equal chance of being detected. (% depends on your cloak becoming an absolute number, i.e. in this case (100-78%) = 22% chance of detection.
Quote: Scanning occurs after everything else, e.g. decay, laying, & sweeping.
Correct. At end of the turn.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: The guts of cloaks in minefields. |
Fri, 29 May 2015 23:23 |
|
|
|
platon79 wrote on Fri, 29 May 2015 22:53skoormit wrote on Fri, 29 May 2015 10:25
(Assuming you mean the SS fleet.)
The scanner is not useless. It still has its own chance of seeing the fleet. In this case, it will spot the fleet when it is <= 25ly from the planet.
That is how I thought it would be too, but I don't think it is actually what the manual says. Anyone who can verify it?
And here for the followup-question:
When does the minefield "scan" ships? Before or after sweeping? If a fleet enters a minefield and sweeps it, will the minefield be able to detect it if it is at the minefield's edge?
(And if a minefield cannot scan it's edge, it would be consistent with observations that the scanner is still useful, as most of the time a fleet sweeps so that it is never IN the minefield, but does not answer the question of if it is useless against a fleet INSIDE a minefield)
Skoormit is correct.
You basically get 2 chances (at varying radii / unique chances) to scan the cloaked fleet if you are using
> the scanner
> the autolaying SD minefield at WP1.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The guts of cloaks in minefields. |
Sat, 30 May 2015 11:49 |
|
|
|
With a scanner, distance from the centre matters.
With a minefield, it doesn't. You roll the same (100-cloak)% chance at every spot inside a minefield.
That's how I understand it.
edit - within an SD minefield.
[Updated on: Sat, 30 May 2015 11:49]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The guts of cloaks in minefields. |
Wed, 01 July 2015 12:10 |
|
| skoormit |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama | |
|
platon79 wrote on Fri, 29 May 2015 12:23
If a fleet enters a minefield and sweeps it, will the minefield be able to detect it if it is at the minefield's edge?
A fleet with sufficient sweeping power will reduce a minefield until the minefield stops just short of the fleet.*
Therefore, after sweeping is performed, such a fleet is no longer in the minefield, and therefore is not subject to SD minefield scanning.
*Let D = the distance from the fleet to the center of the field.
If the fleet has sufficient sweeping power, the number of mines remaining in the minefield will be D^2 - 1.**
Therefore the radius of the minefield will be the square root of (D^2 - 1), which is strictly less than D.
**Based on many observations, but not rigorous testing.
What we need's a few good taters.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
